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Plex Farmer Check

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Douglas Nolm
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-06-04 16:01:31 UTC
I don't see a problem. The poster above has shown that the changes are working as intended, oplexing is possible, but harder. No more will the warzone swing back and forth a cording to the fickle farmers chasing the highest profit and efficiency. Instead it'll take properly planned and executed operations by corps and alliances (and even general militia if people will step up to rub open fleets) to capture systems. That's warfate, and it's how FW should be!

To the poster who feels that as a new player he is no longer useful to his militia, I say "rubbish!"
Get in a cheap tackle frig, find a fleet and run tackle for them. Get yourself a corp if it's hard to find open fleets. I joined FW at 2 weeks old, although that was only about 4 playing days because I'm only around at weekend's. My skills were pitiful, I had about 6 days of SP, because I couldn't update my queue while I was away. I would say I've been pretty useful to the war effort, and I can count the number of plexes I've capped without taking my boots off!



Personally, I wish I was home now to be able to collect a big bucket of farmer tears! Hope they're still whining about it at the weekend!

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#22 - 2014-06-04 16:01:40 UTC
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Care to make any bets on how much of that VP was done deplexing or using a neutral alt to kill the rats if oplexing?


VP is VP. You win the occupancy war by getting more of it than the other side. XG was right to use VP as a measure. I am just sort of looking under the hood to see how I can best win the occupancy war for my faction.

It turns out, you win the most occupancy for your faction by sitting a stabbed alt in a defensive plex and avoiding all pvp.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ashwind Houssa
Therapists Inc
#23 - 2014-06-04 16:24:26 UTC
Cearain wrote:


It turns out, you win the most occupancy for your faction by sitting a stabbed alt in a defensive plex and avoiding all pvp.



CCP calls that fun, engaging PvP content.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-06-04 16:36:16 UTC
I'll just leave this here.

I'm trying to convert the guy to proper FW gameplay, but I'm not too optimistic.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#25 - 2014-06-04 17:33:37 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

I'm trying to convert the guy to proper FW gameplay, but I'm not too optimistic.


I don't know what you mean by "proper." But I didn't see you in the top five winning the war for your faction. Let's hear from some of the top players who got the most vp for their faction yesterday when Kronos launched:


Here they are:

1) Daniel Jackson

2) Tolstyi Kot

3) Nuttiger Hutte

4) AIex PIex

5) Vyacheslav Rogosin

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#26 - 2014-06-04 17:50:59 UTC
yeah, well, a lot of people also spend more time on EvE than they really should.
Castnicke Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-06-04 17:54:42 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

I'm trying to convert the guy to proper FW gameplay, but I'm not too optimistic.


I don't know what you mean by "proper." But I didn't see you in the top five winning the war for your faction. Let's hear from some of the top players who got the most vp for their faction yesterday when Kronos launched:


Here they are:

1) Daniel Jackson

2) Tolstyi Kot

3) Nuttiger Hutte

4) AIex PIex

5) Vyacheslav Rogosin

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx





No idea who any of those players are. Isn't VP gained from farming LP anyway, not PvP?
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#28 - 2014-06-04 18:03:23 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/6h9PU3Z.png
Op success
http://i.imgur.com/ybXv4jo.jpg

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-06-04 18:05:08 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "proper".

Yup, I kind of expected that.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#30 - 2014-06-04 18:43:05 UTC
Castnicke Rinah wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

I'm trying to convert the guy to proper FW gameplay, but I'm not too optimistic.


I don't know what you mean by "proper." But I didn't see you in the top five winning the war for your faction. Let's hear from some of the top players who got the most vp for their faction yesterday when Kronos launched:


Here they are:

1) Daniel Jackson

2) Tolstyi Kot

3) Nuttiger Hutte

4) AIex PIex

5) Vyacheslav Rogosin

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx





No idea who any of those players are. Isn't VP gained from farming LP anyway, not PvP?



VP is what counts for occupancy. You get a set amount of vp per plex run. Once the enemy gets a certain amount of net vp over the current holder of system the system becomes vulnerable. That is how changes in occupancy happen. How much lp you will get will vary on the size of the plex and the tier your faction is at. So lp is only loosely related.

You can farm lp in missions but you will not get any vp.

These guys were the most valuable pilots for gaining occupancy for the factions yesterday. I would encourage anyone who thinks occupancy is about pvp to take a look at their killboards for yesterday to see what sort of fits they are flying in and the types of ships they blew up.

These sorts of facts make it very clear (to anyone who isn't horribly biased) that fw occupancy is most efficiently achieved without pvp. It is about having alts in plexes ready to warp out if any one comes to fight.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Castnicke Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-06-04 18:55:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Castnicke Rinah wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

I'm trying to convert the guy to proper FW gameplay, but I'm not too optimistic.


I don't know what you mean by "proper." But I didn't see you in the top five winning the war for your faction. Let's hear from some of the top players who got the most vp for their faction yesterday when Kronos launched:


Here they are:

1) Daniel Jackson

2) Tolstyi Kot

3) Nuttiger Hutte

4) AIex PIex

5) Vyacheslav Rogosin

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx





No idea who any of those players are. Isn't VP gained from farming LP anyway, not PvP?



VP is what counts for occupancy. You get a set amount of vp per plex run. Once the enemy gets a certain amount of net vp over the current holder of system the system becomes vulnerable. That is how changes in occupancy happen. How much lp you will get will vary on the size of the plex and the tier your faction is at. So lp is only loosely related.

You can farm lp in missions but you will not get any vp.

These guys were the most valuable pilots for gaining occupancy for the factions yesterday. I would encourage anyone who thinks occupancy is about pvp to take a look at their killboards for yesterday to see what sort of fits they are flying in and the types of ships they blew up.

These sorts of facts make it very clear (to anyone who isn't horribly biased) that fw occupancy is most efficiently achieved without pvp. It is about having alts in plexes ready to warp out if any one comes to fight.


Can't flip systems in a warp core stabbed t1 frigate. They may be getting the most VP, but they are far from the most useful pilots in terms of occupancy, especially since most of their VP was most likely gathered in meaningless systems.
Douglas Nolm
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-06-04 19:41:00 UTC
I'll freely admit I wasn't around for the previous FW changes but I think I'd prefer a slow, hard fought war where systems got flipped as a result of organised operations than the constant, quick, back and forth flipping that occurred before kronos as the farmers switched sides over and over chasing the maximum profit. If PvPers don't care about the warzone, then farmers care even less about it! To them the warzone is no different to the way a miner sees an asteroid.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-06-04 19:44:02 UTC
Cerain, since you're having a difficult time, allow me to clarify some things for you.

1. No farmer ever flipped a system.

2. No farmer ever put pressure on an occupied or defended system.

3. Number of systems held isn't a particularly good measure of who's "winning".

4. System upgrades have a far bigger impact on Tier than number of systems held.

5. Defended systems get flipped when PvPers put forth the effort to grind the system up and take it. Farmers play no role in this process.

6. Undefended systems are essentially ignored and only flipped when it's convenient to do so.

7. Non-station and non-agent systems are essentially irrelevant.

So, in other words, even though farmers are still the biggest VP/day in FW, their impact will continue to be negligible in the grand scheme of things. The stats that FlyingHotPocket posted, showing a massive decrease in VP/day across that particular militia, is the better gauge of how things are going in terms of difficulty of plexing.

Castnicke's right to a large degree. Folks who don't see FW as an LP ATM are here more for the fights than anything else. Invading systems is a good way to generate those fights. So is bashing infrastructure like POCOs and POSes. If some farmer wants to spend his or her time spinning buttons in the back end of nowhere, that has no impact on the warzone or our FW experience in and of itself.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#34 - 2014-06-04 19:48:15 UTC
Douglas Nolm wrote:
I'll freely admit I wasn't around for the previous FW changes but I think I'd prefer a slow, hard fought war where systems got flipped as a result of organised operations than the constant, quick, back and forth flipping that occurred before kronos as the farmers switched sides over and over chasing the maximum profit. If PvPers don't care about the warzone, then farmers care even less about it! To them the warzone is no different to the way a miner sees an asteroid.


Im not sure you would feel that way if you were currently the amarr or caldari.

Though in all honesty, LP values will adjust as they always do so that there isnt a huge difference between being at tier 1 or tier 3 if the warzone stagnates.

We will see.
Douglas Nolm
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-06-04 20:02:07 UTC
You're right, I probably wouldn't feel that way. In our WZ though, it does seem like some of the Amarr PvPers have decided to fight back. I can see people organising to take back their home systems at least, even if they're just looking for the GF's that will ensue.
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation
#36 - 2014-06-04 20:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenTesio
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx


"VictoryPointsYesterday"
Gallente Federation 21880
Caldari State 16500
Amarr Empire 9000
Minmatar Republic 8080

The truth is revealed. Gallente are a bunch of carebear farmers.

For reference: before expansion Gallente/Caldari were near 30k/day.



Here is the website.

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx

We can see the very best vp gainers for yesterday are:

1) Daniel Jackson

2) Tolstyi Kot

3) Nuttiger Hutte

4) AIex PIex

5) Vyacheslav Rogosin

These guys are so good at faction war they can win it without having to lose or kill a single ship.


You might want to cross-reference that VP list against Kills, because as a point of note Daniel Jackson might be Top of that list; but he also happens to regularly be in the Top 20 Killers each day too; and loses a **** tonne of Hookbills :p

So just assuming that VP = Carebear LP Farmer, is a far from perfect statement.

[ edit ]

Figured I'd edit rather than double post this, but I'd also like to point out to everyone that because of how Complexes work now you either have to have a DPS Orientated Ship (something out of the range of most "New" Alts) or simply double up on the Alts per Complex.

If you add on to that the Spawns are designed to make a Complex (offensive) take roughly 25% longer than it did pre-Kronos, what you end up with a far more clear picture that no one has really gone anywhere... perhaps a shift to D-Plexing, but the overall LP being earned isn't showing a drop in numbers; just a drop is earnings.

Honestly anyone who followed my *****-fest about these changes on the Features & Ideas, I pointed out clearly that this was little more than an LP Nerf at the expense of New / Younger Players; who'd basically had their earning potentially nearly broken in half (if not more) and forcing Teams.

Farmers have never and will never have any real affect on the actual Warzone (as has been said above a dozen times by all sides) ... the only thing that pissed most of us off was because they're stabbed in every slot they can, you can't kill them - really the bitching comes mostly down to entertainment or padding of our kill boards.

I mean you cut through the bullshit of all of this, and that is the simple fact.
Nothing done is going to affect farmers... I know that, you all know that... even CCP has to know that.

I just want to know what the hell they have against new players who want to venture out solo.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#37 - 2014-06-04 20:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
RavenTesio wrote:


You might want to cross-reference that VP list against Kills, because as a point of note Daniel Jackson might be Top of that list; but he also happens to regularly be in the Top 20 Killers each day too; and loses a **** tonne of Hookbills :p

So just assuming that VP = Carebear LP Farmer, is a far from perfect statement.


Standby for Cearain to move the goal posts on what constitutes a healthy warzone.

EDIT RE: EDIT;

I dont think new players need the level of isk that they were previously earning to afford the ships they can fly. But perhaps they can earn current levels of isk without even going into low-sec?

Also, there was a growing bot problem that FHP's pic shows has really been hit in the testicular region by this. Personally i liked the pendulum, kept the warzone fairly fluid and farmers did have a bearing on the overall condition and place your militia was on the swing.

Removing farmers is predicted to stagnate the war zones due to a disparity in the difficulties of O&D plexing. One can be done with a no skill alt as before, the other has to be done as it was intended to be efficient.

The real question is if this will lead to a better environment. Im leaning towards, not quite.
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#38 - 2014-06-04 21:08:16 UTC
I am absolutely overjoyed that offensive plex farming has taken a junk kick.

If you want to farm LP...go do missions like a good carebear is supposed to...
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#39 - 2014-06-04 21:58:09 UTC
Wait, this is supposed to be solo game?? All this time I thought it was an MMO. Foolish me.
Daniel Jackson
Universal Exos
#40 - 2014-06-04 22:56:35 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

I'm trying to convert the guy to proper FW gameplay, but I'm not too optimistic.


I don't know what you mean by "proper." But I didn't see you in the top five winning the war for your faction. Let's hear from some of the top players who got the most vp for their faction yesterday when Kronos launched:


Here they are:

1) Daniel Jackson

2) Tolstyi Kot

3) Nuttiger Hutte

4) AIex PIex

5) Vyacheslav Rogosin

https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx




btw i was doing ONLY defensive plexing

I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!