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Sentry damage after Kronos?
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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-06-04 09:26:54 UTC
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
Won't the boost to falloff and tracking help in applying that damage better overall?

I used Gardes in close range already. So i don't think bigger falloff will help when your targets are 10-20km away....

Kaea Astridsson wrote:

And wasn't this drone fix intended to also make Heavy Drones usable. How viable are they now to throw at those pesky red crosses?

I'm pretty sure CCP tried to get people use heavy drones over sentries... But as long as your drone can be tackled and destroyed 20-30km off you and you simple have nothing to do in such situations sentries will be the way to go.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#22 - 2014-06-04 09:36:38 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
Won't the boost to falloff and tracking help in applying that damage better overall?

I used Gardes in close range already. So i don't think bigger falloff will help when your targets are 10-20km away....

Kaea Astridsson wrote:

And wasn't this drone fix intended to also make Heavy Drones usable. How viable are they now to throw at those pesky red crosses?

I'm pretty sure CCP tried to get people use heavy drones over sentries... But as long as your drone can be tackled and destroyed 20-30km off you and you simple have nothing to do in such situations sentries will be the way to go.


Yes having more falloff on your gardes doesn't at all help its longer range applied dps, so you can use Gardes instead of bouncer/warden/curator at longer ranges. Incidentally, those 3 other sentries got hilarious buff so yeah, this is obviously a sentry nerf so obviously aimed at making people using heavies.

Stop being dumb.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#23 - 2014-06-04 10:39:13 UTC
Fat Patrick wrote:
thats a nerf.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the meanings of the '+' and '-' signs.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#24 - 2014-06-04 10:53:16 UTC
You guys do realize the enhanced tracking and bigger fall offs actually make up for any "nerf", right?

I mean... the enhanced tracking on the Bouncer IIs will let you hit for more damage, even though the damage has been dropped on them because they track the target better.

The Garde IIs allow you to hit things further away than before with the added fall off, meaning you start dealing damage sooner than you used to, in turn making up any damage you had lost.

Curator and Wardens just plain got more damage.

So take the time and train the specific racial drone skills up like I am doing and deal with it.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-06-04 10:58:19 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
You guys do realize the enhanced tracking and bigger fall offs actually make up for any "nerf", right?

not if your targets are 10 km away and moving slow enough to be inside of comfortable zone for your gardes....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
UCara
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-06-04 11:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: UCara
F,,,,ng Drone Nerfing, WTF....


Screw with tracking and fall off, make a rig for tracking, don't mess with dps.

"but we are confident that the game is in a better place with these changes then it would be without them"

Be confident you s.u.c.k. morons...

Dahell
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#27 - 2014-06-04 14:06:19 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
You guys do realize the enhanced tracking and bigger fall offs actually make up for any "nerf", right?

not if your targets are 10 km away and moving slow enough to be inside of comfortable zone for your gardes....


So switch to Geckos or Heavies to deal with close targets. Or any other sized drone that may fit your needs. Not difficult to adapt if you're willing to do so. If you're not willing to adapt, then that's your problem, not CCPs or anyone elses.
Fat Patrick
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-06-05 09:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Fat Patrick
Tippia wrote:
Fat Patrick wrote:
thats a nerf.

That's a gross misunderstanding of the meanings of the '+' and '-' signs.



Pretty simple, the SP trained is long, this new stat set make it impossible to be as effective, even training the extra 120 odd days of racial skills to get maxed. That is a nerf.

It is at the very least a massive SP time nerf, as you need 4 racial skills to 5 to be at the same level of effectiveness on the weapon system.

It would be similar to having to train racial specific skills for each missile damage type to 5 to be as effective with any missiles.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-06-05 09:50:17 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
Won't the boost to falloff and tracking help in applying that damage better overall?

I used Gardes in close range already. So i don't think bigger falloff will help when your targets are 10-20km away....

Kaea Astridsson wrote:

And wasn't this drone fix intended to also make Heavy Drones usable. How viable are they now to throw at those pesky red crosses?

I'm pretty sure CCP tried to get people use heavy drones over sentries... But as long as your drone can be tackled and destroyed 20-30km off you and you simple have nothing to do in such situations sentries will be the way to go.


Yes having more falloff on your gardes doesn't at all help its longer range applied dps, so you can use Gardes instead of bouncer/warden/curator at longer ranges. Incidentally, those 3 other sentries got hilarious buff so yeah, this is obviously a sentry nerf so obviously aimed at making people using heavies.

Stop being dumb.

I used Gardes in close range already. So i don't think bigger falloff will help when your targets are 10-20km away....

Learn to read
Hint: Gardes ARE close range sentries.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#30 - 2014-06-05 10:11:00 UTC
Fat Patrick wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Haiiro Aurgnet wrote:
there is abouit five threads in the past 24 hours with this info.

short answer. sentries nerfed. for some ships, nerfed harder than others. Sucks, Especially as someone who trained SO MUCH SP into drones- but thus is eve.

Sentries have not been straight nerfed, get your facts straight before you misinform others.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole.

:Edit:

I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:

Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage
Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage
Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage
Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage

Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage
Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage
Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage
Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage



thats a nerf.


Only to 2 of the 8 sentry drones, for the rest its a damage buff, and thats before you look at the other bonuses :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2014-06-05 10:30:37 UTC
Fat Patrick wrote:
Pretty simple
Yes, it is pretty simply. If that many ‘+':es show up, especially since there are no corresponding ‘-’ signs showing up to cancel them out, calling it a nerf is just idiotic.

SP and training time is utterly irrelevant.
Fat Patrick
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-06-05 11:48:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Fat Patrick wrote:
Pretty simple
Yes, it is pretty simply. If that many ‘+':es show up, especially since there are no corresponding ‘-’ signs showing up to cancel them out, calling it a nerf is just idiotic.

SP and training time is utterly irrelevant.



Training time is utterly relevant. But your misunderstanding is forgivable, you are not the only one who thinks like this.

and i must correct myself, it is in fact 20 days per racial spec, so 80 days total extra, 22% or a year, which is just less than 3 plex. If that is not a significant nerf to get to the same "skill level" regardless of whether the dps changes or not, then I don't think you will ever understand a time sink skill nerf.
Fat Patrick
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-06-05 11:52:56 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
You guys do realize the enhanced tracking and bigger fall offs actually make up for any "nerf", right?

not if your targets are 10 km away and moving slow enough to be inside of comfortable zone for your gardes....


So switch to Geckos or Heavies to deal with close targets. Or any other sized drone that may fit your needs. Not difficult to adapt if you're willing to do so. If you're not willing to adapt, then that's your problem, not CCPs or anyone elses.



adapting is fine, and shows a skilled player changing with the game. weapon systems are altered regularly, and sometimes you win, some you lose. It is a problem, however, if the change requires you to train considerably extra skills to get to the same "maxed" level, when there was no way to grandfather the SP required available before hand. Now imagine if this kind of skill change was brought forward for other weapons systems.
Fat Patrick
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-06-05 11:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fat Patrick
Peaches Dallacort wrote:
What skills are required to get sentries to the same dps as before Kronos?

For example with sentry drone interfacing V, drone interfacing IV, and Gallente drone spec IV, will my sentries will now be doing less dps than pre kronos? What if i have rank V for racial and drone interfacing? Will the dps be same or less?

Tl:dr were sentries nerfed or just altered?



The most simple thing to look at is the training it requires to get to the same level on your sentries, if you were already maxed. Now you have to add 80 days SQ to max out the exact same sentry choices you had before.

In other words to have the same choices and effectiveness you must train each sentry's racial skill additionally to your already perfected sentry skills.

That is a serious time sink nerf.
Fat Patrick
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-06-05 12:06:21 UTC
I'm actually really surprised nobody else is complaining about the time sink nerf element to this sentry balance.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-06-05 14:42:26 UTC
Fat Patrick wrote:
I'm actually really surprised nobody else is complaining about the time sink nerf element to this sentry balance.


I do not complaint because i do not care at all, but yeah i agree with you. I find this new time sink pointless and i think that ccp should just focus on server maintenance, small bug fixes... etc.

Thanks for this new patchexpansion and all that.
Ayuren Aakiwa
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#37 - 2014-06-05 14:53:29 UTC
I would trade minimal amounts of damage for increased range, tracking and damage types any day. Y'all are crazy
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-06-05 14:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Peaches Dallacort wrote:
6.5% nerf to gardes with max skills. I thought they wanted to make drones better with less skillpoints, not make them worse with more skills needed...



Exactly two sentries lost DPS: the Garde II and the Bouncer II. Every other sentry, including the T1 versions of those two, gained DPS, and the Garde II and Bounce II gained better damage application, as well.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-06-05 15:02:17 UTC
Fat Patrick wrote:
I'm actually really surprised nobody else is complaining about the time sink nerf element to this sentry balance.



What's to complain about? That sentries didn't make use of the racial spec skills has always been an odd outlier in the mechanics. It is now consistent with the rest of the drone system.

As with my gun and missile specs, I don't feel any burning compulsion to train them beyond 4, and will intersperse the level 5s in wherever I don't have anything else more important to train.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-06-05 15:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Even without the spec skills trained all to 5 you're still seeing significant gains in other areas. And with Curators and Wardens you'll probably still see a DPS gain at spec 3 or 4.

I'm comfortable with not having that last 2% DPS. If you're so bothered by it that you have to spend 80 days training to get it then I don't think it's CCP that's the issue here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
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