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Nightmare or Paladin?
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Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#1 - 2011-12-05 02:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Xious
Heyo, I'm having some issues deciding on a ship choice for some down-time ISK generation. Here's what I have and need:

1 - In terms of skill I'm marginally better sitting in a Paladin but its literally a few percentage difference between skill levels.
2 - I don't salvage at all.
3 - I have effectively max Minnie BS skills (missing only Large AC spec 5)
4 - Having a ship that can mission and do incursions would be awesome.
5 - I have no real skill in Caldari or Gall BS beyond BS IV in both. (T1 guns etc)

So, the fine community of S+M, which should I get? Money is not a major obstacle, so if you have a better suggestion than a NM or a Paladin please let me know.

Cheers!
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#2 - 2011-12-05 02:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Zillam Reynardine
Paladin has a hilarious tank. 553HPS, 1068DPS with Hammers, capstable, T2-only:

[Paladin, T2 Pulse]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5



If you spend the money on deadspace, tank goes to 942HPS, DPS up to 1107 with drones:

[Paladin, Deadspace 2LAR]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5



Alternatively, drop 1LAR for another INHS. 1239DPS with drones, 471HPS:

[Paladin, Deadspace 3HS]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
[Empty Rig slot]

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5




Of course, for all I know, these fits might be sh*t. I don't fly Amarr.

(I hear tell the Nightmare can wtfpwn san/br even harder than the Paladin, though.)

ETA: With the 3HS fit, if you keep 2xLCCCII, you cna drop a Cap Recharger II instead and free up a midslot for something. It's basically a question of which is more useful to you - a midslot or a rigslot?

ETA2: If you stick a Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II in the 3HS fit's free rig slot, tank goes up to 565HPS. That's probably what I'd do; 471 seems a bit thin for a battleship.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-05 02:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Demon Azrakel
Don't run dual LAR if you run a paladin, run 3x heat sink, 3x mission specific hardeners, and a (faction or deadspace) LAR.

I would look at an AC macharial, great DPS, great projection, you can choose damage types, good speed for multi-room missions, and a decent tank. Also, the Paladin really suffers if the hole is not EM/Therm. If you only run missions with EM/Therm holes, then, by all means, use the paladin or the NM. Realize that for NM, your damage skill is caldari BS, while for paladin it is the Marauder skill. Usually you will run a cap booster on a NM. A paladin can fit a 90% web if you really want to, can help hit stuff under your guns really hard (whether those guns are tachs or mega pulses).
Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#4 - 2011-12-05 02:47:13 UTC
Cheers for those fits, looks decent, interested to see how a nm would compare (I bought the NM hull, hence my hesitation to move to Pala so quick :D)

Demon I've spent so long of my EVE career in Minnie hulls blasting away with AC's I feel like a change. I did try the Mach a while back and agreed, it was impressive.
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#5 - 2011-12-05 02:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Zillam Reynardine
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Don't run dual LAR if you run a paladin, run 3x heat sink, 3x mission specific hardeners, and a (faction or deadspace) LAR.

Feh. Omnitank is best tank. Makes for faster turnaround time.

[Paladin, Deadspace 3HS]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

1239DPS with drones, 565HPS omnitank, capstable. Oh, and scoots at 369m/s, which should make that 15+10km range on the mega pulses a lot less painful.

Alternatively, you can sacrifice your tank for a bit more speed. 471HPS, but moves at 924m/s. Capstable, of course:

[Paladin, Deadspace 3HS MWD]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Gist X-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-05 02:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Demon Azrakel
Zillam Reynardine wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Don't run dual LAR if you run a paladin, run 3x heat sink, 3x mission specific hardeners, and a (faction or deadspace) LAR.

Feh. Omnitank is best tank. Makes for faster turnaround time.

...



IIRC, if you really want to use a paladin over a mach, you are planning on going against enemies that take EM / Therm damage the most, and they, for the most part deal EM / Therm. Your tank is much better using those hardeners. Still, it is a matter of preference, much like the NM (run cap boosters) vs paladin debate.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#7 - 2011-12-05 02:57:36 UTC
Nightmare really only becomes good when you spend the money for faction and deadspace modules. If you're going to throw t2 on it you won't get any real benefit over the Apoc, even.
Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#8 - 2011-12-05 02:58:22 UTC
Hmm, never been a massive fan of cap boosting management in missions...I'm pretty **** at micromanagement heh.

So if I'm looking for easy mode, go Paladin?
Goose99
#9 - 2011-12-05 02:58:53 UTC
Lol conflagration. Paladin fails. Tiny grid and bad cap. Fit 4 tachs, and there's no grid for LAR II, use meta LAR, and there's still no grid for cap booster. You end up changing out 3 TCs for 3 cap rechargers, and end up with fail range.

Between Paladin and NM, go for NM.

Aside from that, since you have max AC + Minmatar BS and Gallante BS4, go for Mach instead. Winmatar wins.
Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#10 - 2011-12-05 02:59:22 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Nightmare really only becomes good when you spend the money for faction and deadspace modules. If you're going to throw t2 on it you won't get any real benefit over the Apoc, even.


Happy to do so if it would be a step up from Paladin, do you think thats the case?
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#11 - 2011-12-05 03:01:42 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Zillam Reynardine wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Don't run dual LAR if you run a paladin, run 3x heat sink, 3x mission specific hardeners, and a (faction or deadspace) LAR.

Feh. Omnitank is best tank. Makes for faster turnaround time.

...



IIRC, if you really want to use a paladin over a mach, you are planning on going against enemies that take EM / Therm damage the most, and they, for the most part deal EM / Therm. Your tank is much better using those hardeners. Still, it is a matter of preference, much like the NM (run cap boosters) vs paladin debate.

You have a point worth considering; however, active hardeners hit the cap, and the Paladin's tank is so ridiculous that I'm more concerned about capacitor usage than I am about the tank.

Gahahaha. So, if you stick both a CR8 and a CC8 in your brain, you can drop one Cap Recharger II from the 3HS fit and replace it with a Tracking Computer:

[Paladin, Deadspace 3HS TC]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Capacitor Power Relay II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

1239DPS with drones. 565HPS. 369m/s. Requires CR8 and CC8 to be capstable.
Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#12 - 2011-12-05 03:02:15 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Lol conflagration. Paladin fails. Tiny grid and bad cap. Fit 4 tachs, and there's no grid for LAR II, use meta LAR, and there's still no grid for cap booster. You end up changing out 3 TCs for 3 cap rechargers, and end up with fail range.

Between Paladin and NM, go for NM.

Aside from that, since you have max AC + Minmatar BS and Gallante BS4, go for Mach instead. Winmatar wins.


Never really found a Mach fit I was massively comfortable with...I found striking a balance between tank, gank and some form of cap was difficult. Wouldn't happen to have a fit to hand at all?
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#13 - 2011-12-05 03:08:45 UTC
Xious wrote:
Never really found a Mach fit I was massively comfortable with...I found striking a balance between tank, gank and some form of cap was difficult. Wouldn't happen to have a fit to hand at all?


[Machariel, Pimpmobile Strikes Back]

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

Requires a full set of Crystals (for anything resembling a tank) + CC8 (for capstable).
Xious
Grumpy Auld Gits
#14 - 2011-12-05 03:11:16 UTC
Yeah, I mean its okay and very similar to a set up I ran previous but jesus I found it to be a ***** to run. Cheers for all the help btw, appreciate it.
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#15 - 2011-12-05 03:16:25 UTC
I'm not being helpful, I'm just bored. ☆ﾐヾ(╹▽╹)ﾉ彡☆
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#16 - 2011-12-05 05:12:29 UTC
worst paladin fit i saw in last year to be honest zero tracking/range mod on battleship that use large guns(read worst tracking that one can possible mount on a ship) is absolute failure.

you sir need to learn to play this game.

also NM before pali for extra dps and tracking.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Zillam Reynardine
Stargazer Holdings
#17 - 2011-12-05 10:38:16 UTC
Why in the hell would you need significant tracking? If it's cruiser-sized or bigger, fly at it with your guns running. If it's smaller, you have drones.
Mastin Dragonfly
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-12-05 11:05:57 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Lol conflagration. Paladin fails. Tiny grid and bad cap. Fit 4 tachs, and there's no grid for LAR II, use meta LAR, and there's still no grid for cap booster. You end up changing out 3 TCs for 3 cap rechargers, and end up with fail range.

Between Paladin and NM, go for NM.

Aside from that, since you have max AC + Minmatar BS and Gallante BS4, go for Mach instead. Winmatar wins.


3 Imperial Navy heat sinks
1 Imperial Navy LAR
1 Imperial Navy energized adaptive nano
2 Imperial Navy armor hardeners

1 Domination 100mn afterburner
1 Domination Stasis Webifier
2 Imperial Navy cap rechargers

4 Imperial Navy Tachyons (IN Multi)
2 Drone Link Augmentators
1 Small tractor beam

Implants: +5% grid and +5% cap
+5% tracking, damage and ROF

Cap stable with guns, LAR and hardeners running, 958 dps from guns alone.
Brother Galladrinal
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-12-05 11:10:37 UTC
Zillam Reynardine wrote:
Why in the hell would you need significant tracking? If it's cruiser-sized or bigger, fly at it with your guns running. If it's smaller, you have drones.


Because a Nightmare with good tracking can insta pop all the frigs and cruisers well before they get into drone range....you would know that if you had ever flown one. Ugh

Also to the guy who said that a t2 fit Nightmare isn't worth it, for em/therm missions it still kicks ass. Big smile
Kahldor
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-12-05 15:19:53 UTC
Xious wrote:
Heyo, I'm having some issues deciding on a ship choice for some down-time ISK generation. Here's what I have and need:

1 - In terms of skill I'm marginally better sitting in a Paladin but its literally a few percentage difference between skill levels.
2 - I don't salvage at all.
3 - I have effectively max Minnie BS skills (missing only Large AC spec 5)
4 - Having a ship that can mission and do incursions would be awesome.
5 - I have no real skill in Caldari or Gall BS beyond BS IV in both. (T1 guns etc)

So, the fine community of S+M, which should I get? Money is not a major obstacle, so if you have a better suggestion than a NM or a Paladin please let me know.

Cheers!


Missions and incursions are two different PVE styles. You are better off getting dedicated ships for each one as the fits are very different and you will have to buy new rigs each time you switch. I would suggest a legion or nightmare for incursions as the paladin is a little squishy unless you shell out a lot of ISK for deadspace EANMs.

For missions I like the Paladin as it doesn't require managing cap boosters and WTFPWNs everything weak to Em/Therm. Salvaging in it is ok while you are in mission but most of the time I run 3-4 missions and come back in a noctis as it's much faster.

As for fitting:

Lows:
3 active hardener
1 corpus A-type large armor rep
3 INHS

Med:
2 Cap recharger II
2 TC II with tracking scripts

High:
4 Tach II with INMF
2 Tractor Beam
1 Salvager

Rigs;
LCC
Nanobot accelerator

Throw in some 5% hardwires and run missions with 827dps tank 951guns only DPS/6545 volley. It's not cap stable but I have never had a problem with it since stuff dies as fast as I can target it. Pulses aren't needed as you will pop frigs/cruisers and sometime BC in 1 volley and anything that does get through your drones can take care of.
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