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Suicide Ganking
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#41 - 2011-12-04 23:31:52 UTC
Isley Bartholomeu wrote:
So today I got ganked at a 1.0 sec stargate while simply trying to move a few items to a trade hub to sell... looked like a guy with dual clients and two alts camping the gate. Lost 30m+ from a neat implant I found from a pirate npc just by luck.

Now I've only played the game a few months, and really only have a few hours a week I can play. Manage some PI's, do a little mining while I watch TV or maybe fly around and scan for sites. In a little 2-man corp with my friend. Never really visited the forums. Haven't done any PVP nor do I have interest. Worst I got was people stealing my mining cans or blowing them up.

So I stopped by to see if I could get some advice or find some info on why that happened to me and how to prevent it, and I stumbled on this thread after first reading the 'killing hisec miners' thread. To my surprise I now see that there is a hardcore group of full time griefers dedicated to making my life miserable. Is it really that profitable to you? Is it fun, or are you just bored? Or maybe you can't understand that people play this game in a way other than your hardcore style? I just don't get it.

Hope my post sheds some light on the other side of this, and the often unheard from players like me who don't spend as much time in the game or on the forum as you. I'm sure there are many cases like mine where instead of posting they simply canceled their accounts as I nearly did because of the bad experience I had.

Cheers.


Suicide Ganking is profitable if the expected drop (assume half the items go poof) is valued higher than the value of the ships required to alpha the cargo ship. For reference, a Tornado has 12k Alpha and costs around 80mill fitted. In .5 space it will get 2 shots off.

Becoming (relatively) immune to suicide gankers is simple math to make your ship not worth the effort. Eve is a PVP game, and CCP has a message just for you.

(Yeah, I use that link a lot. Who would guess our favorite game designers are musicians)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Wangston Hughes
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-12-04 23:32:00 UTC
Isley Bartholomeu wrote:
So today I got ganked at a 1.0 sec stargate while simply trying to move a few items to a trade hub to sell... looked like a guy with dual clients and two alts camping the gate. Lost 30m+ from a neat implant I found from a pirate npc just by luck.

Now I've only played the game a few months, and really only have a few hours a week I can play. Manage some PI's, do a little mining while I watch TV or maybe fly around and scan for sites. In a little 2-man corp with my friend. Never really visited the forums. Haven't done any PVP nor do I have interest. Worst I got was people stealing my mining cans or blowing them up.

So I stopped by to see if I could get some advice or find some info on why that happened to me and how to prevent it, and I stumbled on this thread after first reading the 'killing hisec miners' thread. To my surprise I now see that there is a hardcore group of full time griefers dedicated to making my life miserable. Is it really that profitable to you? Is it fun, or are you just bored? Or maybe you can't understand that people play this game in a way other than your hardcore style? I just don't get it.

Hope my post sheds some light on the other side of this, and the often unheard from players like me who don't spend as much time in the game or on the forum as you. I'm sure there are many cases like mine where instead of posting they simply canceled their accounts as I nearly did because of the bad experience I had.

Cheers.


Yes.
Serene Repose
#43 - 2011-12-04 23:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Could we turn the maturity level on this forum down a couple of notches? Oh. Right. Then it'd be -2, like the OP.

It's always been a matter of fascination to me why someone would be bothered by people keeping their game in Empire. How in the world would that be annoying to anyone? Unless...there's some sort of fixation going on. In that case, check the Yellow Pages for walk-in therapy. They're working wonders these days with neuroses. Who knows? You may even get a scrip for some (apparently) needed meds. Either that, or have about five more birthdays, then get back to us.

We'll (yawn) be eagerly awaiting your triumphant return.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2011-12-04 23:42:42 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
OP, as is the CSM and a lot of null sec pilots are confused. If high sec pilots were so afraid of being blown up they would never go to places like Jita. Pull up Dotlan some time and look at the most violent systems lists. Looks like high sec is, and traditionally always is, more dangerous than null. It's many times more dangerous and not from your supposed ganking. In fact, I was amazed to hear it was still being called some sort of activity. You don't seem to realize that stuff has always gone on. Congratulations! you've been doing nothing.


Park a badger on the perimiter gate in jita and count the amount of time it takes for someone to kill you. Now do the same in a busy 0.0 system.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#45 - 2011-12-04 23:46:34 UTC
Isley Bartholomeu wrote:
So today I got ganked at a 1.0 sec stargate while simply trying to move a few items to a trade hub to sell... looked like a guy with dual clients and two alts camping the gate. Lost 30m+ from a neat implant I found from a pirate npc just by luck.


Assuming a "for profit" ganker - the number for small ships like T1 industrials, frigates, destroyers, mining cruisers, etc is about 3-4M ISK per 1000 EHP. So for a T1 industrial with only a 6k EHP buffer tank, which can be easily alpha'd by a lot of things, you really don't want to carry more then about 18-24M ISK worth of stuff. For something with only 2k EHP (frigate), carrying more then about 10-15M ISK is going to get you ganked by anyone in an alpha destroyer if they can scan you and lock you in time.

Get an T1 industrial with an 18k EHP tank and you can be a bit looser with your restrictions, carrying up to 60M before you start to run into serious trouble. Or use a blockade runner or do the MWD / Improved Cloaking Device trick to haul stuff up to 100-300M ISK (which is still not foolproof).

For the big ships like Orcas / Freighters, the number is more along the lines of 5M ISK per 1000 EHP. That puts the freighter's safe cargo level at around 1B ISK of stuff. Those ganks tend to be much more organized affairs with at least 8-10 BC/BS at the gate.

And to add to the fun - not all gankers are in it for profit.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#46 - 2011-12-04 23:53:08 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Isley Bartholomeu wrote:
So today I got ganked at a 1.0 sec stargate while simply trying to move a few items to a trade hub to sell... looked like a guy with dual clients and two alts camping the gate. Lost 30m+ from a neat implant I found from a pirate npc just by luck.


Assuming a "for profit" ganker - the number for small ships like T1 industrials, frigates, destroyers, mining cruisers, etc is about 3-4M ISK per 1000 EHP. So for a T1 industrial with only a 6k EHP buffer tank, which can be easily alpha'd by a lot of things, you really don't want to carry more then about 18-24M ISK worth of stuff. For something with only 2k EHP (frigate), carrying more then about 10-15M ISK is going to get you ganked by anyone in an alpha destroyer if they can scan you and lock you in time.

Get an T1 industrial with an 18k EHP tank and you can be a bit looser with your restrictions, carrying up to 60M before you start to run into serious trouble. Or use a blockade runner or do the MWD / Improved Cloaking Device trick to haul stuff up to 100-300M ISK (which is still not foolproof).

For the big ships like Orcas / Freighters, the number is more along the lines of 5M ISK per 1000 EHP. That puts the freighter's safe cargo level at around 1B ISK of stuff. Those ganks tend to be much more organized affairs with at least 8-10 BC/BS at the gate.

And to add to the fun - not all gankers are in it for profit.


Recently did the math and it only takes 6 perfect Tornados with 1400s and Quake to nab a freighter in .5. And with the insurance nerf, the hull is now the biggest expense, so fitting T2 guns shouldn't be a big problem. Interestingly, it still puts the freighter number around 1bil.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Zevina
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#47 - 2011-12-05 00:28:27 UTC
Eve is not a PvP game. Its a sandbox and you can do whatever you want. I want to highsec carebear. Enjoy your PvP whereever you want, just dont count on me running into your roaming gang and drop my iskies, wont happen. ;)
SpaceSquirrels
#48 - 2011-12-05 00:38:32 UTC
You say "what fun is mining." And it's not. I say where's the sport in blowing up a mining vessel that can't fight back with a gang of 5.

Once again the answer is there isnt any.

There is little incentive to mine in low... less stations. Carrying minerals from low to high sucks. Mining works on the basis of sitting still and waiting for timers. Which sitting in lowsec constantly watching lasers and local/scanners for probes is
1. Not fun
2. Less profit.

Also I dunno why others mine, but I mine because im super busy, and mining is one of the few things I can do and play with my schedule. Not because it's safe and danger free.

/shrug quit complaining and go to null if your bored. Dont like that well I dont like mining in low so..
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2011-12-05 00:38:37 UTC
-3/10
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Rykuss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2011-12-05 03:04:25 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
-3/10


Sadly, it's not a troll. Apparently the OP thought their post in 316's thread deserved it's own thread. Lol

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.
K Suri
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-12-05 03:27:38 UTC
OP. Who died and made you King of Eve?!

Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Guess what? Try leaving empire space and going out where the money is, like the rest of us have to do to make decent isk.

Huh? So go mine in highsec instead of "doing it so tough" stroking your meat like you obviously do.

Quote:

In all my years playing eve I don't think I have ever seen a miner in low sec. This ruins the game for non-carebears and makes the pirate profession limited to gate camping.

Lol. Truly? Been there, did it. The reward isn't worth the risk. And if you knew anything about the game you'd know that. Lemme guess, you bought your char using Mummy's Credit Card and now you're a ******* expert!

Quote:

My more variety comment was more aimed at the miners. Meaning pvp in other places than gates. Which would also bring in pvpers to protect miners in roid belts, which would give me challenging fights.

So me taking that same 200m uninsured Hulk will allow YOU to PvP????? Press f10 you moron and LOOK. The WHOLE nullsec PvP arena awaits you.

Besides. You can suicide gank in HIGHSEC!!!! Why don't you kill some miners there?

But wait.......

Quote:
Fear of being blown up.

YOU won't gank in HIGHSEC because YOU will get "blown up". Scared?

OP is a moronic, stupid and pathetic attempt at stoking a non-existent fire. Twerp Roll
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#52 - 2011-12-05 04:15:46 UTC
This is one of the worst attempts I've read at justifying Suicide Ganking. I am beginning to think the mental illness that manifests in a rampant need to blow up ships that have no ability to defend themselves may lead to the end of Eve. I mean really, OP you sound like an idiot. When did grinding in null become more fashionable or more "real" than grinding in high sec? In fact if the rumors are true a lot of you nulls are slumming in high sec gun mining incursions. The ISK/RISK ratio in null not working out for you? Why not go suicide gank in null? Oh right, because as soon as you enter local the miners POS up. It's a lot harder to do successfully in null isn't it? Yeah, I imagine that's the reason for the highsec vacations. So stop with the silly hyperbole about high sec and HTFU and blah blah blah and go gank some miners. No one needs to hear badly reasoned justifications for punching out the slow fat kid. Just do it.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2011-12-05 04:27:31 UTC
Lord Okinaba wrote:
Make enough ISK in Empire. No need to leave.


If making ISK is what you want.
If you want to contribute in building an empire, fighting for territory, then being in high sec is probably not so cool.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-12-05 04:31:23 UTC
Lord Okinaba wrote:
Make enough ISK in Empire. No need to leave.


So, you play Watching Numbers Grow: The Game, or EVE online?

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#55 - 2011-12-05 04:43:49 UTC
The risk vs reward of mining in low sec just doesn't cut it.

You either mine alone to not share the profit and hope to cut even or even make a profit before being ganked

or

You bring several miners and people to protect but those who protect also need their cut of the income because they too need to make ISK.
However boredom if bothing happens will discourage most protection to do it ever again or they get jumped by a 3 to 1 force. also not very interesting.
Next to that there has to be logistics in place to get the ores/minerals to high sec to be sold or used, becaue let's face it, there isn't much building going on in low sec.


If you really were looking for fights you would have had them more than enough by going null sec or wardeccing some pvp or merc corps in high sec and hunt them.

Just be honest about it all and say the real thing.
You want easy targets, preferably people who might have the ships but not the experience or the numbers to be a real threat.
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-12-05 05:33:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Pavel Bidermann wrote:
OP, as is the CSM and a lot of null sec pilots are confused. If high sec pilots were so afraid of being blown up they would never go to places like Jita. Pull up Dotlan some time and look at the most violent systems lists. Looks like high sec is, and traditionally always is, more dangerous than null. It's many times more dangerous and not from your supposed ganking. In fact, I was amazed to hear it was still being called some sort of activity. You don't seem to realize that stuff has always gone on. Congratulations! you've been doing nothing.


Park a badger on the perimiter gate in jita and count the amount of time it takes for someone to kill you. Now do the same in a busy 0.0 system.





I used to fly an Obelisk betwwen high, low and null sec. How about you? I did pvp there as well as mining and manufacturing. I think I've got a little experience on the topic. Mining was terrible, industry was crap and the daily life was the same boring drill day in and day out. Funny thing is, I don't see any industialists or miners from null posting about how great null sec is. It's understandable since the alliances they work for treat them like crap.

The problem with null is the bulk of the pvp pilots and the alliances that own them there. No game mechanic will fix that. There are other problems but that's the biggest hurdle in null. It's not "them", it's you.

As for the earlier statement of how many ships lost in null vs high, that works if null is doing anything. Currently it's more carebear than low or high combined. Like I said, if you've come to high sec to gank miners, you've left null sec for better game play. You are what you claim to hate.
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#57 - 2011-12-05 05:45:11 UTC
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
YES! I was just thinking, "Oh god, we need another thread about suicide ganking soon! We are soon to drop below quotient on dead, beaten horses!" And then came you OP, and then came you.


This

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-12-05 05:54:54 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Just would be more fun with some more variety and people with some balls to fight.

Have you considered growing your own set of balls and fighting other PVPers instead of ships that stand no chance against you, you know, instead of asking miners to come fight your PVP-set ship?

Just wondering if you've covered all your angles. That's all.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-12-05 06:27:44 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Just would be more fun with some more variety and people with some balls to fight.

Have you considered growing your own set of balls and fighting other PVPers instead of ships that stand no chance against you, you know, instead of asking miners to come fight your PVP-set ship?

Just wondering if you've covered all your angles. That's all.



Are you insane? Those ships shoot you! Even the rats have guns! This game is too hard!!!!!
Besides, other tagets don't leave the ganker with the stench of *pathetic attention ho* and a nasty rash. This is apparently the goal. Blink
Kestrix
The Whispering
#60 - 2011-12-05 06:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kestrix
Hellen Kurvora wrote:


Guess what? Try leaving empire space and going out where the money is, like the rest of us have to do to make decent isk. In all my years playing eve I don't think I have ever seen a miner in low sec. This ruins the game for non-carebears and makes the pirate profession limited to gate camping. That is not how the game was designed. It is risk equals reward.


Low sec is quite possibly the worst place in eve to mine! If you want better profits and ores then go to 0.0 Less populated + better ore = much higher profits with less risk than low sec. Something the OP does not want you to know!

If you low sec pirates want to gank miners why not visit one of the many 0.0 alliances? they all have miners to gank and you'll get a fight as well... perhaps thats the problem, pirates want the gank with out the fight.

Oh and on the point of risk = reward Hellen, it seems to be working as intended... low sec ganking of miners = low risk for the ganker, high risk for the miners eg you can't find any miners in low sec.