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Giving Drones an assist - redux

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Author
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#1 - 2014-06-03 16:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Bigg
I had Combat Drone Operation to level V (five) prior to the skill change.

I had Scout Drone Operation to level 0 (zero) prior to the skill change.

I now have Light Drones V, Medium Drones V, and Drone Avionics 0, working as intended.



The information with the change that was updated in the dev blog (too late to take advantage of it, mind you), indicated that if you had Scout Drone Operation V, you would also get Light/Medium V. It was never explicitly given as a reason, but the access of T2 Light/Med from the skill is likely the reason.

My issue is this, I was able to use Drone Link Augmentor II prior to the patch, by vitrue of Combat Drone Operation V. It was quite useful for repair/ecm drone range. Sadly now I am unable to.

All this could have been avoided had the original devblog been updated in a timely manner after the post was made, sadly it was not. I feel a double standard has been applied, with some players gaining an unfair advantage over others.

As much as I would love to demand Drone Avionics V to be able to use Drone Link Augmentor II's, I realize it wont happen (especially since Combat Drone Operation is gone, it is something that would have had to go through with the skill conversion). But I would like to have an open discussion with other players regarding their thoughts on the issue, or how it might have personally affected them.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#2 - 2014-06-03 16:36:03 UTC
I trained CDO 5 at 10d per pop on 6x accounts due to dev blog, only to watch the skill simply disappear. Wasted the equivalent of 2 months training time. Unfair indeed.
Ohhhh Feely Nice
Feely Good Logistics
#3 - 2014-06-03 16:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohhhh Feely Nice
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
I trained CDO 5 at 10d per pop on 6x accounts due to dev blog, only to watch the skill simply disappear. Wasted the equivalent of 2 months training time. Unfair indeed.

Yep. Exact same situation here; 6 accounts, each trained CDO 5 specifically due to the blog. The blog they never updated with the new changes, over 2 months later.

I have actually re-unsubscribed my accounts over it. Really tired of the awful communication and social skills of CCP being ignored yet again. Not that I was paying RL $ anyways, but I'm sure the subscription numbers were nice. I had initially unsubscribed for other reasons but resubscribed to help buff their subscription numbers. No more.

My loss became their loss. Now that is fair CCP.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-06-03 17:08:35 UTC
Ohhhh Feely Nice wrote:
I had initially unsubscribed for other reasons but resubscribed to help buff their subscription numbers. No more.


Jackie Chan would like a word with you.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#5 - 2014-06-03 17:10:42 UTC
Given that they always say "if you can use it before, you can use it after" this sounds like an oversight to me.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#6 - 2014-06-03 17:13:45 UTC
Ohhhh Feely Nice wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
I trained CDO 5 at 10d per pop on 6x accounts due to dev blog, only to watch the skill simply disappear. Wasted the equivalent of 2 months training time. Unfair indeed.

Yep. Exact same situation here; 6 accounts, each trained CDO 5 specifically due to the blog. The blog they never updated with the new changes, over 2 months later.

I have actually re-unsubscribed my accounts over it. Really tired of the awful communication and social skills of CCP being ignored yet again. Not that I was paying RL $ anyways, but I'm sure the subscription numbers were nice. I had initially unsubscribed for other reasons but resubscribed to help buff their subscription numbers. No more.

My loss became their loss. Now that is fair CCP.

Yep. 4 of my accounts have been unsubbed for the last month in protest. Also neglected to take advantage of the humble bundle chance to start even more accounts when normally I would've been all over that.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#7 - 2014-06-03 17:16:37 UTC
You should post this in the Kronos issues thread. Not the complaint about the dev blog not being updated, just the comment that you could use DLAIIs before and can't now.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=349362&find=unread
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-06-03 17:32:38 UTC
The word "balance" needs the be phased out because it unfortunately gives some players the mistaken belief that everything is going to be "fair" and equal - that has never been true.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#9 - 2014-06-03 18:32:53 UTC
Chris Winter: thank you, I have added a post in the thread you linked.

Barbara Nichole: I think you are the first person in this thread to use the word 'balance', so I'm not quite sure how it is relevant to the thread.
Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#10 - 2014-06-03 18:42:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Radelix Cisko
There are, give or take, 22 years worth of training that can be done in this game and we are still complaining about a skill change that has been argued over and over again for 2 months....even after a dev clarified what was going to happen. Granted that occurred in the comments on that devblog.

Since I am at work and I have a final tonight can I be provided a list of grievances in list form?

point 1 ...

point 2 ....

etc


Also can someone batphone Tippia for yet another explanation of why this is not a big deal

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game

Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#11 - 2014-06-03 19:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Bigg
Radelix Cisko wrote:
There are, give or take, 22 years worth of training that can be done in this game and we are still complaining about a skill change that has been argued over and over again for 2 months....even after a dev clarified what was going to happen. Granted that occurred in the comments on that devblog.

Since I am at work and I have a final tonight can I be provided a list of grievances in list form?

point 1 ...

point 2 ....

etc


Also can someone batphone Tippia for yet another explanation of why this is not a big deal



  • point one:
  • Combat Drone Operation gave a bonus to damage of Light and Medium Drones, per level. It seemed a natural progression to give the players, as a bonus, free skills (in Light/Med Drones) of an equal level to match the bonus they already had, when CDO was split. This was the information listed in the dev blog, and it made sense to everyone.

    Scout Drone Operation gave a bonus to drone control range, and was simply renamed to Drone Avionics.



  • point two:
  • The prerequisites for Drone Link Augmentor II and (all of the Light/Med) T2 drones were mismatched. Drone Link Augmentor II made more sense if it required Scout Drone Operation V, as the skill gave drone control range. T2 drones were similarly misplaced, as it was more logical to give access to T2 from the skill that gave a bonus to damage, similar to every other weapon system.

    This issue was addressed with the new skills, as T2 light drones require Light Drone V, T2 medium drones require Medium Drone V. This was also explained to help with specific bonuses on hulls (like the Guristas, for example). Drone Link Augmentor's were changed to requiring Drone Avionics (III for T1/meta, V for T2).



  • point three:
  • A player in the feedback thread asked that since they already had Scout Drone Operation V (and therefore T2 Light/Med Drones), why couldn't they also get access to the new Light/Med drone skills?

    This was the place for CCP to explain that no, they couldn't; that the skill bonus was the important part, not the prerequisites, and that if they player wished to gain the benefit of a 'free' 1x level V skill (256000sp) they needed to train Combat Drone Operation.

    They chose instead to continue the 'If you could use it before, you can use it after' approach to T2 Light/Med drones, and gave players with Scout Drone Operation skills equivilent ranks in Light/Medium.



  • conclusion:
  • A player that could use a Drone Link Augmentor's before the patch should be able to use them now. This would require giving players that had Combat Drone Operation trained an equivilent level of skill in Drone Avionics.

    The precedent was set/reinforced in point three.
Dominus Tempus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-06-03 19:20:14 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Ohhhh Feely Nice wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
I trained CDO 5 at 10d per pop on 6x accounts due to dev blog, only to watch the skill simply disappear. Wasted the equivalent of 2 months training time. Unfair indeed.

Yep. Exact same situation here; 6 accounts, each trained CDO 5 specifically due to the blog. The blog they never updated with the new changes, over 2 months later.

I have actually re-unsubscribed my accounts over it. Really tired of the awful communication and social skills of CCP being ignored yet again. Not that I was paying RL $ anyways, but I'm sure the subscription numbers were nice. I had initially unsubscribed for other reasons but resubscribed to help buff their subscription numbers. No more.

My loss became their loss. Now that is fair CCP.

Yep. 4 of my accounts have been unsubbed for the last month in protest. Also neglected to take advantage of the humble bundle chance to start even more accounts when normally I would've been all over that.

Nobody really cares, though. The only thing that results in is the lack of a month's SP.
Carolin Andreste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-06-03 19:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Carolin Andreste
We didn't actually lose any skill points. Skills did not disappear -- they were renamed and reassigned. Some of you are getting upset over the fact you didn't get to take more advantage of the change, because you trained-up CDO, which turned out be unnecessary for the new skills reassignment/grant. The actual, final formula for the reassignment was published well ahead of the Kronos release, so it's not like we were blindsided, as some here are making it sound like.
Okay, so some people got more of a gift than others. Is that worth rage-quitting over?
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#14 - 2014-06-03 19:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikki Bigg
Carolin Andreste wrote:
We didn't actually lose any skill points. Skills did not disappear -- they were renamed and reassigned. Some of you are getting upset over the fact you didn't get to take more advantage of the change, because you trained-up CDO, which turned out be unnecessary for the new skills reassignment/grant. The actual, final formula for the reassignment was published well ahead of the Kronos release, so it's not like we were blindsided, as some here are making it sound like.
Okay, so some people got more of a gift than others. Is that worth rage-quitting over?


You miss the point.

I have (had) Combat Drone Operation V. I was able to use tech 2 Drone Link Augmentor's. I am unable to now, as I do not have Drone Avionics V.

And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#15 - 2014-06-03 19:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Rikki Bigg wrote:
Carolin Andreste wrote:
We didn't actually lose any skill points. Skills did not disappear -- they were renamed and reassigned. Some of you are getting upset over the fact you didn't get to take more advantage of the change, because you trained-up CDO, which turned out be unnecessary for the new skills reassignment/grant. The actual, final formula for the reassignment was published well ahead of the Kronos release, so it's not like we were blindsided, as some here are making it sound like.
Okay, so some people got more of a gift than others. Is that worth rage-quitting over?


You miss the point.

I have (had) Combat Drone Operation V. I was able to use tech 2 Drone Link Augmentor's. I am unable to now, as I do not have Drone Avionics V.

And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.


As much as I usually dismiss posts like this, I admit that yes that does go against CCP's long standing "I f you can use it now, you can use it after the patch" policy.

He has a valid point.

And no I wasn't effected by this change, but still feel that its a valid argument.
Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#16 - 2014-06-03 20:06:37 UTC
So we are arguing over ~4 days of training time for something that would have given you benefit before the patch?

To be honest I am trying to understand since I had trained both the prepatch skills to V a while ago. Luckily Evemon has not been updated yet so I am looking at the skill tree. Based on my reading you are telling me that you were using a drone focused play style and had not maxed 2 skills that required a grand total of ~14 days? I'm not saying its a bad thing. My alt missed the BC split since I didn't train the cruiser levels up or at all for that matter.

My point being that both SD and CDO were useful skills before the patch and now that is has been documented over many threads what the change was going to be and you did not adjust training accordingly. So now we want nay DEMAND an SP refund for a "useless" skill that was split into 2 skills that provided more SP and if you had both would be providing the same benefit as before.



Mind you I am arguing to understand the point. I just checked my skills and they are all to V like they should be.

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#17 - 2014-06-03 20:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Rikki Bigg wrote:
I have (had) Combat Drone Operation V. I was able to use tech 2 Drone Link Augmentor's. I am unable to now, as I do not have Drone Avionics V.

And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.

This may seem like a silly question, but it would match the approach taken by CCP in the past:

Have you physically tried to fit a DLA I or DLA II to a ship since the patch?
Carolin Andreste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-06-03 20:21:38 UTC
Rikki Bigg wrote:
And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.


Though I'm going by memory, I was myself aware of the SDO thing much earlier, because I had time to train all the characters I wanted to SDO 5. If some got the news later than others that is indeed unfortunate.

Rikki Bigg wrote:
I have (had) Combat Drone Operation V. I was able to use tech 2 Drone Link Augmentor's. I am unable to now, as I do not have Drone Avionics V.


You didn't get Drone Avionics V because you didn't have Scout Drone Operation injected at all? If so, I can understand being upset, because you only actually needed SDO I. Even if you only found out on the 30th, wouldn't you have only needed minutes to train that?
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-06-03 20:25:14 UTC
This seems like a double standard indeed What?
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#20 - 2014-06-03 20:25:15 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Rikki Bigg wrote:
I have (had) Combat Drone Operation V. I was able to use tech 2 Drone Link Augmentor's. I am unable to now, as I do not have Drone Avionics V.

And as far as the underlined portion of your comment, no, it wasn't; it was posted on the 30'th of May, giving exactly zero players to train Scout Drone Operation to V from 0 if they chose.

This may seem like a silly question, but it would match the approach taken by CCP in the past:

Have you physically tried to fit a DLA I or DLA II to a ship since the patch?


Correct, when I try to fit the DLA II I get the message:

You do not have the required skills to do that. To fit and use that item requires having learned the following skill : Drone Avionics : Level 5.
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