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At last! A fair, balanced debate on Climate Change!
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jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#101 - 2014-06-03 19:12:33 UTC
its bloody true !!!


its on youtube it has to be !! Bear



see this is what happens when you end up being unemployed for a year due to the recession ....you end up watching any old shite


well ....it was more entertaining than bloody Jeremy kyle Big smile
Lido Seahawk
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2014-06-03 19:15:56 UTC
I remember back in grade school the chicken little crowd was telling us how we were heading into another Ice Age. Now we're gonna fry. A decade or two, it will be something else.... I mean, getting leaner and greener is all good and fantastic and everything, but there's no real point to getting hysterical about it.

As for the coal thing, I've been hunting out on the Wyoming plains watching these huge coal trains go by every 20-30 minutes. The sheer mass of what they are moving is mind-boggling. I know coal needs a nerf, but we need to be careful messing with an industry that big. Lot of jobs at stake.

And damn, I mean, there's a LOT of coal laying around....

May I have your stuff?
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#103 - 2014-06-03 19:21:13 UTC  |  Edited by: jason hill
UK is built on coal ....supposed to be enough to last over 500 years ..... my old town had one of the biggest coal mines in the world ....but it just wasn't viable ..as we could buy it cheaper from south America than dig it out of the ground ... miners got too powerful and tried to hold the country to ransom ...so aunt Maggie shut them down ... lol ..must confess id rather do what im doing now ...than work in a fkn coal mine


but now ...we can frack frack frack to our hearts delight ...job done imo
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#104 - 2014-06-03 19:39:14 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:

The rainforests are where it's really crucial. And there is very little in the way of replanting concern as far as I know


Very true, but the ability to grow trees at an accelerated rate is completely possible. So much of Great Britian's deforested land is still sitting treeless and unused. Forests have for eons been destoryed by nature and rebuilt by nature. Why can we not do the same thing? I am not implying that this is an easy or a quick fix, but it is the easiest thing we can do to target the biggest problem. We are not going to deccelerate our fossile fuel use, even though I believe conservation is a smart tactic to utilize.


We can do that. While there is space arable space I suppose. But one of the reasons the rainforest is disappearing is to make room for more people. More business. More industry. More concrete. More blacktop.

Which are two non-helpful things when considering the ecosystem themselves. Taking away the green and replacing it with concrete and blacktop causes even more heat to be absorbed and held onto. The albedo effect I think its called...or maybe that was energy reflected back into space. Whichever lol. Neither are good things in excess.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#105 - 2014-06-03 19:41:57 UTC
jason hill wrote:
UK is built on coal ....supposed to be enough to last over 500 years ..... my old town had one of the biggest coal mines in the world ....but it just wasn't viable ..as we could buy it cheaper from south America than dig it out of the ground ... miners got too powerful and tried to hold the country to ransom ...so aunt Maggie shut them down ... lol ..must confess id rather do what im doing now ...than work in a fkn coal mine


but now ...we can frack frack frack to our hearts delight ...job done imo



Worst thing about the latter is that it uses a lot of fresh water, which only makes up 3% of the worlds water supply, unless you want to setup facilities to clean up sea water to drink it, which in turn needs power to operate them, and they are expensive.


In short, anyway you look at it, we're screwed because no matter what option is chosen, it steps on some ones interests and how they can make money, hence the real solution get rid of money altogether.


It's radical I know....Lol
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#106 - 2014-06-03 19:43:25 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:

The rainforests are where it's really crucial. And there is very little in the way of replanting concern as far as I know


Very true, but the ability to grow trees at an accelerated rate is completely possible. So much of Great Britian's deforested land is still sitting treeless and unused. Forests have for eons been destoryed by nature and rebuilt by nature. Why can we not do the same thing? I am not implying that this is an easy or a quick fix, but it is the easiest thing we can do to target the biggest problem. We are not going to deccelerate our fossile fuel use, even though I believe conservation is a smart tactic to utilize.


We can do that. While there is space arable space I suppose. But one of the reasons the rainforest is disappearing is to make room for more people. More business. More industry. More concrete. More blacktop.

Which are two non-helpful things when considering the ecosystem themselves. Taking away the green and replacing it with concrete and blacktop causes even more heat to be absorbed and held onto. The albedo effect I think its called...or maybe that was energy reflected back into space. Whichever lol. Neither are good things in excess.




then you can point your finger quite comfortably at one major problem in our society .... this
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#107 - 2014-06-03 19:44:35 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:

The rainforests are where it's really crucial. And there is very little in the way of replanting concern as far as I know


Very true, but the ability to grow trees at an accelerated rate is completely possible. So much of Great Britian's deforested land is still sitting treeless and unused. Forests have for eons been destoryed by nature and rebuilt by nature. Why can we not do the same thing? I am not implying that this is an easy or a quick fix, but it is the easiest thing we can do to target the biggest problem. We are not going to deccelerate our fossile fuel use, even though I believe conservation is a smart tactic to utilize.


We can do that. While there is space arable space I suppose. But one of the reasons the rainforest is disappearing is to make room for more people. More business. More industry. More concrete. More blacktop.

Which are two non-helpful things when considering the ecosystem themselves. Taking away the green and replacing it with concrete and blacktop causes even more heat to be absorbed and held onto. The albedo effect I think its called...or maybe that was energy reflected back into space. Whichever lol. Neither are good things in excess.



Star wars planet Coruscant, which is basically an entire city on a planet and imports everything from other systems...P
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#108 - 2014-06-03 19:48:38 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
Thank you for the modern world that we live in dinos. Could not have done it without you. Blink

Kind of ironic, isn't it? Dinosaurs become extinct and give up their place as the dominant species. But-- they yield petroleum, which humans in turn use to make themselves extinct. Revenge of the dinos!

P.S. How's that for logic and critical thinking? Smile
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#109 - 2014-06-03 19:49:32 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
jason hill wrote:
UK is built on coal ....supposed to be enough to last over 500 years ..... my old town had one of the biggest coal mines in the world ....but it just wasn't viable ..as we could buy it cheaper from south America than dig it out of the ground ... miners got too powerful and tried to hold the country to ransom ...so aunt Maggie shut them down ... lol ..must confess id rather do what im doing now ...than work in a fkn coal mine


but now ...we can frack frack frack to our hearts delight ...job done imo



Worst thing about the latter is that it uses a lot of fresh water, which only makes up 3% of the worlds water supply, unless you want to setup facilities to clean up sea water to drink it, which in turn needs power to operate them, and they are expensive.


In short, anyway you look at it, we're screwed because no matter what option is chosen, it steps on some ones interests and how they can make money, hence the real solution get rid of money altogether.


It's radical I know....Lol


does it have to use freshwater ... we have enough water in the sea ?
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#110 - 2014-06-03 19:50:34 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Commissar Kate wrote:
Thank you for the modern world that we live in dinos. Could not have done it without you. Blink

Kind of ironic, isn't it? Dinosaurs become extinct and give up their place as the dominant species. But-- they yield petroleum, which humans in turn use to make themselves extinct. Revenge of the dinos!

P.S. How's that for logic and critical thinking? Smile



Yeah they lived 75 million years ago and they still might end up killing us all.

-k8

My Fanclub
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2014-06-03 19:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Matilda Cecilia Fock
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:

The rainforests are where it's really crucial. And there is very little in the way of replanting concern as far as I know


Very true, but the ability to grow trees at an accelerated rate is completely possible. So much of Great Britian's deforested land is still sitting treeless and unused. Forests have for eons been destoryed by nature and rebuilt by nature. Why can we not do the same thing? I am not implying that this is an easy or a quick fix, but it is the easiest thing we can do to target the biggest problem. We are not going to deccelerate our fossile fuel use, even though I believe conservation is a smart tactic to utilize.


Rainforests can't be replanted for a simple reason: 98% of all nutrients are on the plants. Someone cuts and burns them, grows some crops on the ashes, and what's left is sterile soil with little to no organic matter in it -what is technically known as a mottherfuking barren, which is going to be eroded by the rains, just until the rains stop, as trees are a key element in rain rates -no trees, no rains, ask the Sahara for further detail on that vicious circle.

Of course, rainforests can be exploited in a sustainable manner, but only if you live there and grow the appropiate trees and plants as if it was a kind of orchard -the leaves of this plant, the fruit of that palm tree, here are edible roots, firewood from that tree, et cetera. It's a low density agriculture and doesn't allows large populations, but is sustainable, even more if you slowly and carefully prepare the ground and manufacture patches of "terra preta do indio" to grow common vegetables on them.

The question is, we can deal with our planet and its flora/fauna in two ways: as an enemy to conquer, exploit and destroy, or as a friend to recruit in our favor so everybody prosper.

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#112 - 2014-06-03 20:08:17 UTC
I'm going to invest in camels and camel husbandry now. While its cheap. The market for them will explode when the oil is gone, the trees are gone and there is sand everywhere as the planet starts undergoing desertification.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#113 - 2014-06-03 20:15:25 UTC
jason hill wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
jason hill wrote:
UK is built on coal ....supposed to be enough to last over 500 years ..... my old town had one of the biggest coal mines in the world ....but it just wasn't viable ..as we could buy it cheaper from south America than dig it out of the ground ... miners got too powerful and tried to hold the country to ransom ...so aunt Maggie shut them down ... lol ..must confess id rather do what im doing now ...than work in a fkn coal mine


but now ...we can frack frack frack to our hearts delight ...job done imo



Worst thing about the latter is that it uses a lot of fresh water, which only makes up 3% of the worlds water supply, unless you want to setup facilities to clean up sea water to drink it, which in turn needs power to operate them, and they are expensive.


In short, anyway you look at it, we're screwed because no matter what option is chosen, it steps on some ones interests and how they can make money, hence the real solution get rid of money altogether.


It's radical I know....Lol


does it have to use freshwater ... we have enough water in the sea ?


Salt water corrodes the piping used to generate the pressure needed( something crazy like 10 000 + PSI), to crack the rock and reach the deposits.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-06-03 21:36:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
digitalwanderer wrote:
jason hill wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
jason hill wrote:
UK is built on coal ....supposed to be enough to last over 500 years ..... my old town had one of the biggest coal mines in the world ....but it just wasn't viable ..as we could buy it cheaper from south America than dig it out of the ground ... miners got too powerful and tried to hold the country to ransom ...so aunt Maggie shut them down ... lol ..must confess id rather do what im doing now ...than work in a fkn coal mine


but now ...we can frack frack frack to our hearts delight ...job done imo



Worst thing about the latter is that it uses a lot of fresh water, which only makes up 3% of the worlds water supply, unless you want to setup facilities to clean up sea water to drink it, which in turn needs power to operate them, and they are expensive.


In short, anyway you look at it, we're screwed because no matter what option is chosen, it steps on some ones interests and how they can make money, hence the real solution get rid of money altogether.


It's radical I know....Lol


does it have to use freshwater ... we have enough water in the sea ?


Salt water corrodes the piping used to generate the pressure needed( something crazy like 10 000 + PSI), to crack the rock and reach the deposits.
actually, as long as the wet piping doesn't have direct contact with air, you're fine. In a piping that goes underwater, the area that is under influence of tides is the one that gets the brunt of corrosion. Untreated metal can get destroyed fast in this bit.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#115 - 2014-06-03 22:47:02 UTC
CO2 concentrarion increases as the temperature of the planet increases, not the inverse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#116 - 2014-06-03 23:45:47 UTC
This always baffles me how people are in such denial. We are a species about 7 billion strong who all breathe and exhale carbon dioxide just as a baseline. Then a large portion of that population has their own car to drive around in and the overwhelming majority of that population gets their power from coal power plants and most of us by products made in factories that also release various chemicals into the atmosphere and we all get our food and other necessities by vast networks of various freight methods land air or sea. Of course we have an impact on our environment.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#117 - 2014-06-04 03:02:57 UTC
cynomakinggirl wrote:
CO2 concentrarion increases as the temperature of the planet increases, not the inverse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age



We also have a lot of it trapped within rock formations like those in England that have white appearance....The white cliffs of dover:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_cliffs_of_Dover#mediaviewer/File:White_cliffs_of_dover_09_2004.jpg


That's all CO2 trapped in there, about 5 billion tons of it and it's what the planet naturally produces every year with the summer and winter seasons.....The other 25 billion tons is man made in some form every year.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#118 - 2014-06-04 09:24:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

sauce?
I believe you im just qurious


Education, I was aiming to get into Geology.

There are a large number of BBC science programmes from Professor Iain Stewart that go into detail on the subject. There are also some Horizon documentaries that get into some good detail and there might be a Royal Institute Christmas Lecture on the subject but I'm not sure on that one.

The biggest problem with Climate change is that the general public has very little easy to digest info on the subject and the news sites from both sides of the camp are terrible at reporting the subject. I'm one of those rare people that enjoy reading scientific papersStraight

Here's a good one to watch, The Climate Wars. Its a history of the climate change debate.

Episode 1

Episode 2

Episode 3

Thank you Baltec , I'll be watching those later o7

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2014-06-04 17:41:33 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
This always baffles me how people are in such denial. We are a species about 7 billion strong who all breathe and exhale carbon dioxide just as a baseline. Then a large portion of that population has their own car to drive around in and the overwhelming majority of that population gets their power from coal power plants and most of us by products made in factories that also release various chemicals into the atmosphere and we all get our food and other necessities by vast networks of various freight methods land air or sea. Of course we have an impact on our environment.


in denial are those who believe that everything's fine.

I believe that everything's not fine. My belief in who is responsible is pedantic at most, since finding the culprit won't do squat on this.


In addition to all the things that are happening atm, latest solar minimum has started about 2 years ago. That *might* make things happen slower, as global warming is concerned, but not for long. If any it might make things worse. Who knows.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#120 - 2014-06-04 18:09:18 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

sauce?
I believe you im just qurious


Education, I was aiming to get into Geology.

There are a large number of BBC science programmes from Professor Iain Stewart that go into detail on the subject. There are also some Horizon documentaries that get into some good detail and there might be a Royal Institute Christmas Lecture on the subject but I'm not sure on that one.

The biggest problem with Climate change is that the general public has very little easy to digest info on the subject and the news sites from both sides of the camp are terrible at reporting the subject. I'm one of those rare people that enjoy reading scientific papersStraight

Here's a good one to watch, The Climate Wars. Its a history of the climate change debate.

Episode 1

Episode 2

Episode 3

Thank you Baltec , I'll be watching those later o7




watched it when I 1st came out ..you be as confused after watching as you were before you watch it