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[Kronos] Freighters and Jump Freighters Rebalance [Updated]

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Knoppaz
distress signals
#2561 - 2014-06-03 09:32:53 UTC
Shane Merol wrote:

...

Two questions:

1) Was it intentional to give the armor freighters a massive edge in EHP potential by allowing them passive resistance/layering modules?

With the added advantage of extra EHP shifted to armor, slave implants, and t2 resist profile on JFs, this gives the armor freighters a rather unfair advantage in EHP over the shield variants, without any drawbacks. The minmatar freighters are especially at a disadvantage as the Fenrir/Nomad don't have the cargohold advantage the Charon/Rhea do, and have an even more pathetic pool of EHP.

...


Was about to ask the same. Strange decision to leave shield tankers (and especially Minmatar) in such a bad position compared to the rest..

Knoppaz / distressSIGNALS http://distresssignals.tumblr.com

a capsuleer's way to insanity
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#2562 - 2014-06-03 14:27:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone, just wanted to remind you all that we will be keeping a close eye on these changes as they hit TQ and we are of course committed to a balanced environment between defense and offense.

We don't believe that these changes skew the balance too far against suicide gankers, although they do provide some good options for smart players to manage their risk.



So, Faction ANPs on Slaved, Boosted Providence only from now on. No tanking options for the Charon or Fenrir. Simply gimped with bulkheads instead.

Wicked balancing.
Valterra Craven
#2563 - 2014-06-03 17:05:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
!!!
Valterra Craven
#2564 - 2014-06-03 17:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
CCP Fozzie wrote:

We don't believe that these changes skew the balance too far against suicide gankers, although they do provide some good options for smart players to manage their risk.


How could they? If ganks don't increase by orders of magnitudes I will be surprised.
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#2565 - 2014-06-03 17:34:42 UTC
This is just a massive nerf, FU ccp.

To get the same amount of cargohold on my freighter I now must fit 3 expanded cargoholds, which will lower structure HP by -60%.

Considering that reinforced bulkheads will now give -11% cargo capacity each (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=340217), it means that this is a super nerf. FU ccp.

FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2566 - 2014-06-03 18:48:21 UTC
cynomakinggirl wrote:
This is just a massive nerf, FU ccp.

To get the same amount of cargohold on my freighter I now must fit 3 expanded cargoholds, which will lower structure HP by -60%.

Considering that reinforced bulkheads will now give -11% cargo capacity each (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=340217), it means that this is a super nerf. FU ccp.

FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU FU

yes this is exactly how you give constructive feedback I'm sure theyre going to change it for you now
Av Ra
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2567 - 2014-06-03 20:20:39 UTC
Death to Freighters. Get sh*t on.
Von Reichenbach
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#2568 - 2014-06-03 20:21:17 UTC
Ok, after some testing, the Charon was batted pretty badly. The Obby is my new GO-TO boat. Close to the same hold, higher EHP.

CCP, you might want to look at what you did to the shield boats...
Ame Umida
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2569 - 2014-06-03 21:46:06 UTC
I endorse this -9 trillion %.

I say if you hate them that much just remove them from the game.
Xiofromata Drakonius
Stellavasi
#2570 - 2014-06-03 22:25:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Xiofromata Drakonius
So CCP nerfted Freighters to get industry to nullsec.....News Flash CCP nobody is going to do industry in nullsec the risk is too high.

More Risk...more cost....less Risk less cost. Congratz CCP hauling just became more expensive to all! Will pass it on customers.

Be True to yourself, even in a GAME
Paranoid Loyd
#2571 - 2014-06-03 22:33:29 UTC
cynomakinggirl wrote:
Tears


I find your corp name quite hilarious in regards to your post.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
NotaPost AltAtAll
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2572 - 2014-06-03 22:42:36 UTC
SUUUUPER FREIGHTER NEEEERFFF ACTIVATED!!!!

Sweet I guess CCP is trying to kill that section of their dwindling botting % of playerbase by making freighters into paper thin giant ISK loss death traps good move I guess =0

Yuri Fedorov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2573 - 2014-06-03 23:38:38 UTC
The only modules worth fitting are 2x Istabs and 1x warp speed thingy, or 3x cargohold for all freighters. The negligibly increased tank won't change anything since they will just gank you anyway.
Adaleen
Stellar Production
#2574 - 2014-06-03 23:41:25 UTC
I hardly flew a freighter before...I most definitely will not be now. Id rather move stuff in an orca multiple times, at least it gets better cargo per hp.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#2575 - 2014-06-04 01:58:07 UTC
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
The only modules worth fitting are 2x Istabs and 1x warp speed thingy, or 3x cargohold for all freighters. The negligibly increased tank won't change anything since they will just gank you anyway.

The tank can actually be significantly increased on the Obelisk or Providence. The Charon and Fenrir are just boned.
JP Boirelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2576 - 2014-06-04 04:07:57 UTC
I wonder how all these changes will effect Red Frog's business model.

I have a Charon and doubt I will use it anymore. Probably swap to one of the armor tanking Freighter/JFs
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#2577 - 2014-06-04 04:21:49 UTC
I've noticed, over the last few pages, that the arguments (both good and bad) seem to swing between either the gankers or freighters being nerfed or buffed, depending on the scenario, but I haven't noticed any other factors being discussed with regards to balancing.

The previously-argued balancing techniques either result in an upwards spiral of power creep, as freighters and gankers alternately receive buffs, depending on who screams the loudest, or a repeating cycle of nerf / buff / nerf of one side of the argument.

To me, another significant factor is the time to recover.

It is much easier to just get another catalyst / talos (even for 20 people), than to go and get another freighter plus equivalent cargoload. Hell, the gankers probably even have a pre-fitted pile of them lying around, but there aren't many people that have a pile of freighters lying around. 10 million ISK is slightly easier to get a hold of than 10 billion.

I realise that cost is apparently not a balancing factor, but there must be something that could help reduce the sting of losing a freighter. After all, you do want the freighter pilot back in the game as soon as possible, right? Buying another freighter plus another load of cargo is good for the economy. (perhaps that's highsec thinking, though; maybe you want to disrupt an alliance's supply lines for longer?)

One thing I was thinking of was enhancing insurance in some way, perhaps adding the option of travel insurance that's charged per trip (or return trip, or per hour, or something).

The existing insurance scheme is not very effective over time, costing 1/3 of the cost of the freighter every 3 months (although a nice ISK sink). But, your cargo is not insured. Travel insurance means you'd have to take a gamble and decide if you want to pay extra for that trip, in return for a little extra peace of mind in the event of being ganked.

Perhaps you could have a public NPC-controlled pool, wherein everyone's premiums are paid into the pool, and anyone who is ganked is paid out of that pool. If not enough people buy into it, the pool dries up and Sad no payout for you.

Are there any other ways to balance outside ship stats?

This signature intentionally left blank for you to fill in at your leisure.
JP Boirelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2578 - 2014-06-04 05:19:22 UTC
CCP can you please point out what the shield tanking version of ANPs are please? My shield tanked Freighter would like the same benefit of the Obelisk and Providence.
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#2579 - 2014-06-04 09:40:42 UTC
JP Boirelle wrote:
CCP can you please point out what the shield tanking version of ANPs are please? My shield tanked Freighter would like the same benefit of the Obelisk and Providence.


3x Coreli ANP on Provi = 338k EHP
3x Bulkhead II on Provi = 347k EHP

3x Coreli ANP on Charon = 247k EHP
3x Bulkhead II on Charon = 303k EHP

Which would you pick? Now add slaves, and now add boosts.

Provi gets to 496k EHP - no Bulkheads - just ANP
Charon gets to 343k - 3x Bulkheads best.


The armour tankers get Slaves, and get ANP, why would you use Bulkheads at all? So they suffer no penalties.

COME ON DEVS? Comment please.
cynomakinggirl
No Risk No ISK
#2580 - 2014-06-04 09:47:35 UTC
In an attempt to give players more options,

...they halved the available options, by making fenrir and charon useless.

"The internet is a reliable source of information." - Abraham Lincoln