EVE General Discussion

I know what Malc is trying to say but in reality it will not work.

You talk about war 2 fronts fine , Lets being by nerfing jump distance by half, jump clones time doubled, fuel costs doubled.

Lets Pretend its Goonswarm against an alliance of say an alliance of 500 guys, lets call them BoB .

Prior to this fight each goonswarm member has trained at least 1 cyno alt. That is a potential approx 22,000 cyno alts which is just bloody ridiculous. So lets say they have 500 Cyno alts which is very easily done.

Bob are based in Detorid, Goons are going to fly from Deklein.

For a Super with JDC5 that is 7 jumps so after the nerf its now 14.

Now with there 500 cyno alts they can place 10 cyno pilots in each system and have 100's left over, they could easily create 2, 3 extra routes.

Along each route they can position multiple pos's for supers to refuel / safe up if required.

With the amount of isk goons have, the size of their logistical wing / their experience all of this would be easy for them.

So even with the nerf BoB would still be a viable target although because of the nerf it will be a lot harder for BoB to on on the offensive as they will not have the man power / isk / logistics at hand. they might of stood a chance before but no longer.

Now even if another alliance called Tim decided to take advantage and attack Goons, they are still going to be able to fly back and defend. Okay now it might take more isk and maybe extra 10 - 15mins because of the extra jumps but it is so little it will make no difference.

thanks all for at least for the most part keeping this an interesting topic. Apart from the silly 'go get them out and fight for it' comments, i dont need to say how stupid that statement is.

However its not just about renting as a mechanic, im fine with that, i mean i used to fly with NC. and co and understand what a great reimbursment program they have. But i believe that if you own sov then you should have to utilise the resources in there to gain your ISK etc. Create your very own economy to let your alliance survive, The issue i have is that its got the point that say N3/NC/PL can merely control lots and lots of space with just the threat of having a zillion capitals to stop ANYONE ever taking it. The situation only gets worse because gaining trillions of isk allows you to create an unstoppable force. and no matter how many people say 'go fight for it' realistically its not going to happen is it. in fact unless you are CFC the other culprit its near impossible.
If you own space then you should live in it, be part of it, grow it, and yes maybe rent some space out. but not hundreds of systems!
Now i dont blame the alliances for doing this, if you could why wouldnt you, but this is surely killing nullsec? Yes people may say well youre populating it, well not really. What happened to the real economies, the fights etc. There is nothing left to fight for its all renters. Its cold war time and i dont see it ever changing now.

We now have clearly 2 sides CFC and N3 and everything is now about taking regions purely for isk and rental not to live and grow etc.. Worse than the chinese server. Are we getting to the end game in nullsec?

Personally i would make all nullsec NPC nullsec and get people actually living in nullsec.

If that didnt happen then I would like to see CCP completely move NPC nullsec away from sov. Like perhaps around low sec regions, that would create some interesting content. At the moment not only do these coalitions not live in sov they stay in the npc regions and exploit all the good missions, faction content etc.

I know some people wont agree, but think about it, its only heading in one direction -

This all day long.

I make zero isk from null sec yet I am able to plex 4 accounts and save to buy a super with ease.

Hell I have hardly been online over the past few months due to RL issues yet I am still able to make enough isk to pay for my 4 accounts.

There is so little incentive for anybody top band together and fight to live in null that large areas remain empty apart from the odd few running scanning down sites etc

Malcanis pretty much nailed it in one.

Yes, he put into two paragraphs what would actually need to entail a number of smaller issues to be addressed at the same time to be fully successful.

My point of view is basically we need to:

1: SHARPLY reduce the ability to easily move capitol fleets, either through time, logistics cost/complexity, range reduction, or likely a combination of all of these things.

2: SHARPLY reduce the ability to easily move large fleets of sub caps via the same methods.

3: Change SOV and/or game mechanics to render caps inferior to sub caps when it comes to taking Sov, making hard hitting and fast moving sub caps fleets more of a danger to SOV than Cap fleets.
Further changes to SOV mechanics (specifically timers) to allow timezone participation yes, but remove the ability to use it as a long term delaying tactic.

4: Holding large area's of space should get more profitable the larger those area's are, however they should also become far more difficult to effectively hold... with a distinct emphasis on the later.

5; It should be far easier for a small entity defending a single system than for a large entity to defend countless systems.

The end goal should be for it to be actually very easy to take a system or two (and perhaps easier to hold them) from a large entity. Bigger does not have to mean better.

Even if you lose that system you can easily go take another one until eventually the larger entity tires of retaking space they really don't need (and possibly can no longer afford the time to defend).

Multiple smaller area's of control, and multiple smaller scale engagements, are far far better than what we have now.

I almost feel this is 'after the horse has bolted' its a cold war, so it doesnt matter neither side are bothered about attacking each other on a grand scale at the moment. So getting to each other quicker being nerfed is probably a good thing as it helps protects their assets they now have. You can see it on the map N3 have the south, CFC have the North and both getting richer and bigger everyday, almost like fat cats.

What happens when there is nothing left to take (which is pretty much where we are now). Neither side will attack each other, so thats it then. End game for nullsec.

And even if one side did attack, and one won, what do you think will happen to the other regions? yep all turned to rental space.

God just get rid of standings and go back to having it in your bios - that was the fun days :)

I find it hilarious how some people think the only way to take down a huge alliance is through firepower. Does no one remember how BoB was finally taken down?

Pretty sure mittens will have insulated himself against that. Besides even if there was a big sov drop the renters are different alliances and people would just rejoin unless there's a major disfunctionality within the alliance. Ultimately killing goons is dropping sov in a few regions, if that, their pets/ cronies still hold several regions, their rental empire is in place. Within a couple of days they have regrinded it all in supers. Maybe PL/ N3 can capitalise and deadzone VFK, nothing more will come out of it.

I find it even more funny you think it's that easy. Even if one did get disbanded then that would leave one super power that will just make the enemies space into even more rental estate

Want to fix sov without nerfing power projection? Trivial.

Modify all sov structures to have 10k ehp. There. Done. Titans, Supers, Carriers, and Dreads all become irrelevant. A ten man gang of frigates can reinforce an entire region. Problem solved.

Ridiculous? Probably. But there's almost certainly a happy medium between the total stagnation currently on TQ and the ridiculous ping pong proposed above.

I really don't care where the supers come from, I was just trying to get in OPs corp and be trusted..