Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You obviously haven't checked my KB then. I am happy to admit that it is a rather sorry and inactive mess, because other methods of making people resent seeing my name in local currently have my attention.

I can say this, however. I don't know anyone who flies a T3 looking for pushover fights with T1 frigates and cruisers. That's about as interesting as ratting in a BS. If you don't rig your T3, you're going to lose it on a regular basis and after you lose it a couple times you have no interest in flying it for a good long while. Why? Because those bonuses from your subsystem skills are not insubstantial. Losing those bonuses means losing more T3's if you keep flying them, which means losing more SP, and a crapload more ISK.

Any of this sounding fun yet?

You know what I think is fun? And let's see how many people agree with me on this, we'll hold an unofficial straw poll of sorts....

Getting in a fight with a ship and pilot that I should have a good chance against, or a small fleet in which my small fleet should have a good chance against, and not getting the hide stripped off of my sorry backside because I skimped on some lousy rigs which would have improved my ship to such a degree that I would not have embarrassed myself with the killmail I just handed my opponent, I would not have been a burden on my fleetmates and I would not have gotten some if not all of them killed by dropping the ball with something so mind-numbingly moronic as not fully fitting my ship for another 20% DPS, 35% tank, cap stability or the ability to actually keep my target neuted instead of just hugging him ineffectually while he runs around the field blapping all of my purple buddies.

Being able to avoid all of that, for 5 to 50 million isk, and keep my 350 to 550 million isk T3 which is not an insignificant amount of isk to someone who doesn't PLEX or molest moons out in null, is an appropriate balance of risk vs. reward. 3 and a half days of SP on top of that when I have 2 years of training planned that I consider "essential" just for the CRUISERS I want to fly? Jeebus Christ, why is this a topic of discussion?

If I'm doing exploration in my T3, I don't get caught BECAUSE of the rigs I use. Period. Doesn't happen. If you get caught doing exploration in a T3 just go home.

If I'm using projection rigs to snipe and I get caught? It was going to happen anyways, but before that happens I can put those rigs to good use getting kills that otherwise wouldn't be possible because I'm not applying enough DPS to drop them while points hold.

If I get engaged by anything kitey in an armor buffer fit Legion or Proteus, I'm not going to catch them regardless of rigs. Having the Trimarks fit, however, I have an extra 2-4 minutes to burn back to gate. I can literally batphone people in from 5 systems away when I notice I'm caught and they will arrive in time, even if there are adds, to RR me, to kite the kiters and push their point off, or whatever.

The only reason not to use rigs on a T3 is if you want to lose it repeatedly, and since losing T3's directly affects your ability to fly T3's for the immediate future, you just guarantee that you'll lose more T3's by willingly throwing them away if you continue to re-ship in T3's.

The amount of isk lost compared to the amount of benefit you get from rigging a T3 is trifling, and not rigging them is like undocking with half your high, mid or low slots empty. How is this not immediately comprehensible?

"We're working on ways to make sure that rigs don't hold you back anymore..." - CCP Fozzie.

It does mean that T3's should have that versatility in rigs, versatility was intended in their design. Versatility is the core of their design. Subsystems are designed to give the player choices in how they use the ship, what they use it for and the ability to make compromises in one area to improve another, without changing to an entirely different ship. Permanent rigs are a direct contradiction to that design, CCP recognizes that it is a design flaw and they feel that it should be fixed, as do most T3 pilots.

It's not about the price. It's not about the convenience. It's the fact that one part of the ship directly contradicts the other, and prevents it from fully realizing the concept that CCP had when they made T3's in the first place.

They messed it up. They know it. They're fixing it. Why would you ask that it stay broken?

What part of my posts made you think I was talking about rigs in general, and not how rigs interact with T3's?

I have never stated I wanted rigs changed, just how rigs interact with T3's. Two different things, the latter of which is recognized as a problem and being addressed.

You're looking for faults in his argument rather than reading his argument. Stop trying to be right.

Seems like we are over complicating this.. Why not:

Add T3 rigs that are removable and fit-able on any ship, built with wormhole loot (boost wormhole economy) same benefit (or just slightly better) as t2 rigs (so not to crash the t2 rig market) but reduce the drawback. Essentially if you want flexibility you have to pay for it with t3 rigs otherwise you can still use t2 rigs for very similar effect.

Then worry about T3 re-balances

It might also be interesting to add like 50k skill loss on the skills associated with the rig to keep with the whole T3 theme of losing SP when exploding

Two issues with this that I see personally:

Having a full set of rigs available to only 4 ships, whereas other rigs are available to entire size categories, means that the dozens of t3 rigs it would take to mimic standard rigs would be sporadically supplied to the market at best, especially when you factor in that components come from WH's. Not so popular rigs just wouldn't be manufactured on a large scale at all, and thus wouldn't be available the majority of time people are looking for it, making those fitting options unavailable due to circumstances out of the pilot's control. There are already some rigs which only see sporadic use within their size categories, if you section off a smaller part of that market and then rely on players to fully supply that less desirable market when they could be doing brisk business elsewhere, there are going to a lot of gaps in what is available at any given time. An option that you cannot choose is not an option.

WH's don't really need their economy stimulated. They just need more people who aren't scared of the bogeyman.

But then how do you balance a T3 version of a rig when the T2 already takes 200 to 250 calibration? Do you just bump that up until a ship can only fit 1 rig, and it essentially becomes useless?

Again there is still the issue of creating an entirely new set of medium rigs that are only supplied by players, and will be of limited demand in comparison to other medium rigs. There are over 100 different types, and you are limiting the amount of resources that can be acquired by rolling it into the WH loot tables which already provide the entire slew of items needed for T3 manufacturing and subsystem manufacturing, when there are only a limited number of players in WH's to pull from those loot tables. You not only significantly reduce the availability of resources for the T3 rigs by making both available from the same source, but also for everything else needed to manufacture T3's.