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Band-aid for the "40% just levels his raven": highsec issue supers

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Scout Vyvorant
Doomheim
#101 - 2014-06-01 15:06:44 UTC
After reading your blogs and your forum posts, I came to the conclusion the ship you wish to give out as "crayon" to the people is nothing else than a marauder that cannot use jump gates.

The high sec player do not need a bigger version of the marauders as there's no use for it, there would be if we had level 5 high sec, which we don't have anymore.

However, there's a ship you can give to high sec player that anyway need a rebalance: The rorqual.

To make a cap ship like the rorqual viable for high sec you need some changes in the game, I'm going to make a list of what I think I would change:

1) ORE/Civilian Cynosural Field Generator - A cyno that only ORE ships can lock to, and ofc the rorqual can use it to move in high sec. I would make it use the same fuel of the normal Cynos plus faction appropriate starbase charters.

2) Change Capital Remote assistance modules to be disallowed in empire - The same way Warp Disruption Field has the "Banned in Empire Space" tag set to true, add it to the capital remote assistance module, we don't want the rorqual to be the ultimate remote assistance ship in high sec wars

3) Change the bonus Capital Remote Shield Boosters to Any Remote Shield Boosters - In an ideal EVE, having a capital ship giving remote assistance could break the game; however in the current Remote Assistance situation, where you can have Logi Alts in NPC corps assisting you in war decs, having a rorqual boosting your shields or a basilisk doesn't make much difference. You cannot attack them anyway or concord is going to eat you alive. The day CCP is going to extend kill rights to the ship assisting the aggressor or defender, the rorqual is going to be an incredibly costly sitting duck, and probably no one is going to field it.

4) Ship Maintenance Bay and Fleet Hangar - Is it meaningful to keep her Ship Maintenance Bay limited to Mining / Industrial ships considering the Orca can hold any kind of ship? Isn't her Fleet Hangar Bay a bit too small considering an Orca has 40k and the new Deep Space Transports have 50k base plus skill bonuses?

5) Industrial Core - I would remove its Heavy Water requirement to run, make a T2 version Banned in Empire that compress ores at a faster rate than its Lowsec Pos brother and leave the T1 version equal to the high sec PoS module

3A and 5A) Remove the bonus to remote shield boosters range, turn it into a Reduced Capacitor Use for Personal Shield Boosters, and bake into the Industrial Core a bonus to Personal Shield Booster amount similar to the one given by Siege Modules of the Dreadnoughts / Bastion Module of the Marauders, disallow assistance, make it immune to ECM and give weapon timer.

After these changes you obtain a very sturdy ship, fit for high sec (not sure about low sec), with great self defense abilities, a way to do some damage thanks to the damage bonus to drones, able to host a clone vat bay, and the possibility to change systems with a certain involved cost and risk due to the nature of Cyno generation.

This is my first attempt of constructive forum posting in ages, I hope we can discuss these idea together for a better EVE.
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#102 - 2014-06-01 15:28:28 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
And what's the point? What does it do? Why would anyone bother? Even covering thier navy raven in officer mods actually serves a purpose, what does this DO?


If you had read the OP, you would know the purpose of this eye sore is increased revenue for CCP. This is accomplished by giving solo players, who would otherwise quit, a ridiculous objective that would take months, or years to accomplish.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#103 - 2014-06-01 16:29:13 UTC
Llyona wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
And what's the point? What does it do? Why would anyone bother? Even covering thier navy raven in officer mods actually serves a purpose, what does this DO?


If you had read the OP, you would know the purpose of this eye sore is increased revenue for CCP. This is accomplished by giving solo players, who would otherwise quit, a ridiculous objective that would take months, or years to accomplish.



Which they will not bother with, because it is completely and utterly pointless.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#104 - 2014-06-01 19:13:25 UTC
The thing he's missing, is that the reason people use the Raven / Golem is because they can stick it in EFT, and see that it's a worthwhile progression path for their career, or they ask around and get advised to use certain ships for certain tasks. They are min/maxing.
Gevlon thinks that something that is brazenly worse than anything else at doing a particular job is going to get used, which flies in the face of everything we know about the EVe playerbase who like to min/max the hell out of everything.

No one is going to stick their highsec Titan into EFT and see it as worthwhile. No one is going to be telling people to "upgrade to a Leviathan" to run missions. They'll see about as much use in missions as a succubus.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2014-06-02 04:17:44 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The thing he's missing, is that the reason people use the Raven / Golem is because they can stick it in EFT, and see that it's a worthwhile progression path for their career, or they ask around and get advised to use certain ships for certain tasks. They are min/maxing.

If they were min/maxing, empire faction missions and mining would be the last thing they'd do. After all, these are literally the worst ways of getting ISK.

Sisters of EVE LP is 2200 ISK. Thukker Tribe is 3000. Both are having agents in highsec. Yet the highsec players are missioning for 800-900 ISK/LP. Some min/maxers!

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#106 - 2014-06-02 04:25:33 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The thing he's missing, is that the reason people use the Raven / Golem is because they can stick it in EFT, and see that it's a worthwhile progression path for their career, or they ask around and get advised to use certain ships for certain tasks. They are min/maxing.

If they were min/maxing, empire faction missions and mining would be the last thing they'd do. After all, these are literally the worst ways of getting ISK.

Sisters of EVE LP is 2200 ISK. Thukker Tribe is 3000. Both are having agents in highsec. Yet the highsec players are missioning for 800-900 ISK/LP. Some min/maxers!

The empire stuff is easier to sell. So it's better.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-06-02 04:27:56 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The thing he's missing, is that the reason people use the Raven / Golem is because they can stick it in EFT, and see that it's a worthwhile progression path for their career, or they ask around and get advised to use certain ships for certain tasks. They are min/maxing.

If they were min/maxing, empire faction missions and mining would be the last thing they'd do. After all, these are literally the worst ways of getting ISK.

Sisters of EVE LP is 2200 ISK. Thukker Tribe is 3000. Both are having agents in highsec. Yet the highsec players are missioning for 800-900 ISK/LP. Some min/maxers!

The empire stuff is easier to sell. So it's better.


You're trying to explain human reasoning to someone that doesn't understand human reasoning.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#108 - 2014-06-02 10:04:09 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The thing he's missing, is that the reason people use the Raven / Golem is because they can stick it in EFT, and see that it's a worthwhile progression path for their career, or they ask around and get advised to use certain ships for certain tasks. They are min/maxing.

If they were min/maxing, empire faction missions and mining would be the last thing they'd do. After all, these are literally the worst ways of getting ISK.

Sisters of EVE LP is 2200 ISK. Thukker Tribe is 3000. Both are having agents in highsec. Yet the highsec players are missioning for 800-900 ISK/LP. Some min/maxers!

You realize the SOE agents are now the busiest in the game, right?
People sell their LP at ~1k because they can shift large volumes of the items at that price, reliably, and don't need to babysit their sell orders and move around every few days to chase the highest ratios.

They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.

You don't understand people. Stop suggesting you do.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Velicitia
XS Tech
#109 - 2014-06-02 10:24:56 UTC
Scout Vyvorant wrote:


3) Change the bonus Capital Remote Shield Boosters to Any Remote Shield Boosters - In an ideal EVE, having a capital ship giving remote assistance could break the game; however in the current Remote Assistance situation, where you can have Logi Alts in NPC corps assisting you in war decs, having a rorqual boosting your shields or a basilisk doesn't make much difference. You cannot attack them anyway or concord is going to eat you alive. The day CCP is going to extend kill rights to the ship assisting the aggressor or defender, the rorqual is going to be an incredibly costly sitting duck, and probably no one is going to field it.


Being in a fleet (necessary for gang-links) opens you up to getting shot by WTs. Or, at least it used to.

Don't really have issue with the other points ... but that's mostly because still trying to wake up.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#110 - 2014-06-02 19:17:47 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.

So they are min/maxing over 0.5% LP/hour gain by some faction mod but ignore that moving a few systems away could triple their income. Got it.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2014-06-02 19:21:21 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.

So they are min/maxing over 0.5% LP/hour gain by some faction mod but ignore that moving a few systems away could triple their income. Got it.


I love it when you fail the ad absurdum by throwing numbers out of your ass.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Dave Stark
#112 - 2014-06-02 19:29:55 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.

So they are min/maxing over 0.5% LP/hour gain by some faction mod but ignore that moving a few systems away could triple their income. Got it.

except it's not going to be triple income for long if things like derived standings **** up their ability to move around and reduce them to farming level 1 missions in an effort to repair said standings.

honestly; almost every time you hit "post" you demonstrate lack of understanding about almost any topic you care to comment on.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2014-06-02 19:50:11 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.

So they are min/maxing over 0.5% LP/hour gain by some faction mod but ignore that moving a few systems away could triple their income. Got it.


There are also factors such as mission selection & the relative peace and quiet of a system. Some people like being in systems with 100 people, some prefer systems which are next to empty.

There is also the fact that many of the people in high sec who have been running missions for years actually know people in their "home" systems. Even some of the most solo players are likely to have a friend or two that they socialize with. That is one of the reasons that people keep using those sub-optimal LP stores.

If the entire population followed the LP return ratio in order to run missions, Sisters LP would no longer have the value that they do.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#114 - 2014-06-02 21:13:33 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

They are very much min/maxing within a certain effort threshold; not everyone is content to make virtual space money their whole reason for existence, and would rather spend a fraction of the time for a moderately reduced return than poopsock it like you do.

So they are min/maxing over 0.5% LP/hour gain by some faction mod but ignore that moving a few systems away could triple their income. Got it.


Actually, once you bling your ship enough you get over a threshhold where you can blitz missions, and your overall net gain isn't a few percent, but several times better income. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know this.
Even with people who just shoot the ships for the bounties, small gains in DPS equate to relatively larger returns, because 5% more DPS can, for example, be 25% more DPS above the level of any active tanking the rats do, making the net return much greater. Again, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know this.

People don't min/max which LP store they go to, because it is wholly too much effort for a freaking video game. They do, on the whole, use the right ships for the job though, which your flimsy attempts to distract from have missed.

No one is going to see a Leviathan as a viable L4 mission ship. The literal only person who wants your "useless" highsec titan is you, because you have no other way of getting one.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#115 - 2014-06-03 01:18:42 UTC
Why is everyone flaming so much on this guy?

It's like the first 20 replies were like: hey your idea is stupid, youre stupid, people like you ruin eve, go jump of a cliff. Jesus.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-06-03 01:30:45 UTC
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
Why is everyone flaming so much on this guy?

It's like the first 20 replies were like: hey your idea is stupid, youre stupid, people like you ruin eve, go jump of a cliff. Jesus.

Because everything this guy posts is just BAD.

And the fact that he constantly posts ideas trying to get things changed despite having no idea how any of it actually works.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#117 - 2014-06-03 05:46:34 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
People don't min/max which LP store they go to, because it is wholly too much effort for a freaking video game. They do, on the whole, use the right ships for the job though, which your flimsy attempts to distract from have missed.

So they min/max something marginal (their ship) but ignore something that could double/triple their income. Fully understandable.

Or maybe they bling their ships not to optimize income, but for the mere action of blinging the ship. Which case they'd love to do it with a super.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2014-06-03 06:40:14 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
People don't min/max which LP store they go to, because it is wholly too much effort for a freaking video game. They do, on the whole, use the right ships for the job though, which your flimsy attempts to distract from have missed.

So they min/max something marginal (their ship) but ignore something that could double/triple their income. Fully understandable.

Or maybe they bling their ships not to optimize income, but for the mere action of blinging the ship. Which case they'd love to do it with a super.


Or maybe you are wrong and they indeed want something that is even marginally better and attainable. The titan is neither better nor attainable.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool
Dave Stark
#119 - 2014-06-03 07:41:30 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
People don't min/max which LP store they go to, because it is wholly too much effort for a freaking video game. They do, on the whole, use the right ships for the job though, which your flimsy attempts to distract from have missed.

So they min/max something marginal (their ship) but ignore something that could double/triple their income. Fully understandable.

Or maybe they bling their ships not to optimize income, but for the mere action of blinging the ship. Which case they'd love to do it with a super.


they don't ignore it though, as i have explained.
it seems you're more ignorant of game mechanics than they are of isk/lp conversions.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#120 - 2014-06-03 18:19:26 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
they don't ignore it though, as i have explained.

What you explained is nonsense. They have no need or reason to move from SoE or Thukker Tribe until the majority of the mission runners get brains (= never). These factions have very high LP/ISK conversion for years compared to normal highsec factions.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com