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At last! A fair, balanced debate on Climate Change!
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Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-06-02 07:34:47 UTC
Webvan wrote:
BTW, the same climate crud I heard back in the 70's that we were all suppose to be dead from already, long ago, freakin running around like chickens with their heads cut off.


Funny story about that. My dad was in secondary school in the 70s. And he kept all his old school books etc as my family never throw any damn thing away if we can help it.

Well about 15 years ago he dug out his old science text book which had a whole chapter about climate change entitled, "Life in 1999." It accompanied a short story about a brother and sister trying to get to school across polar ice sheets and worrying about polar bears... in what remained of London. Basically the whole premise was that warming would trigger cooling and bring on an ice age and that we should do x y z to avoid it.

Suffice to say they got their data a tad off methinks.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#42 - 2014-06-02 08:40:18 UTC
Graygor wrote:
[quote=Webvan]

Suffice to say they got their data a tad off methinks.
haha just a little off... Big smile
Where I live now, when it's winter time we have "no burn days", we cant light a fire in the fire place to heat our homes in the dead of winter. The fear is some little kid ten miles away may get a whiff of the smoke and go into convulsions. We are polluting teh world with our smokes. Serious, they have PA's on the radio with a little girl about in tears over it, "pleas don't light a fire" etc etc. They are taught to be hypersensitive and scared out of their wits. A whiff of smoke sending them into asthma attacks if not triggered by their conditioning training.

Odd because I grew up in LA, grade school in the 70's, GenX and all that. One time they took us out on a field trip, to just a local park. They made us sit on the bus for two hours because it was a smoggy day... and the teacher started to tell us how teh world was going to end real soon like. Trying to brain wash us, and we just laughed at first... until the torture of just sitting on a hot crowded bus set in. I mean big deal, we were in smog every day, it was LA in the 70's and none of us kids were sick, actually everyone was fit in those days compared to all the fat sedentary sick kids today. We finally started about rioting, they gave up and let us off lol. They never reached us, and our grade schrewl official grad music was this, but not until a near riot when at first they denied our near unanimous vote for it.

Now kids are scared. They start on them with this really young. Little kids not old enough to reason for themselves, being scared into nightmares that the world will end over this garbage before they even grow up. Like this source that points it out but I don't exactly agree with his full position. One thing for sure, it's being waaay blown out of proportion, and they are becoming more skilled at torturing little kids out of their wits with this garbage. The same pitch they tried to sell us on in the 70's, just more deviously delivered now after a many numbers of years to practice. It's bunk!

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#43 - 2014-06-02 08:59:31 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:


Implying that the people that are now in their fifties right now didn't screw everything up already.



Just saw the latest cosmos show speaking exactly about this topic funny enough, and in 1958 the annual output of C02 gas from all industries as well as volcanic eruptions and anything else that could contribute to the total was 6 billion tons.


Today, it totals 30 billion tons...A 5 fold increase in just 50 years, so we can imagine what the result will be like if we double the population in the next 50 years and still keep to burning oil, natural gas and coal as main energy providers.



We've gone from 300 milligrams of carbon dioxide, which has been the reference for the last 800 000 years to 450 milligrams since the industrial revolution started in the late 1800's and 600 milligrams is the tipping point where there's no going back, it might reach that mark by the end of this century and the earth gradually turns into another Venus.....Scary **** ladies and gents.



Action needs to be taken on a global scale involving every country, not just localized projects anymore to have enough time to reverse the tend and scientists knew this since the late 1880's, they did the math and 80 years later, NASA( in 1958) confirmed them as being on the money, but short term goals like cheap oil, natural gas and coal still dominated and we lived on a year to year basis even back then, and what would happen 100~200 years later, they didn't care.


Strangely similar attitude to what's happening now but we have much less time to react, even if our technology is more advanced than it was back then.....lobbies, politics, the money it would take for this massive project on a world wide scale, and do we have enough time left to pull this off and change our destiny....Seems we always have to have our backs to the wall to react.


Action is being taken, sort of, the EU has pretty stringent regulations when it comes to emissions. Why they'd close down a nuclear plant tho is beyond me, but fact of the matter is that the majority of people with access to technology have a small carbon footprint. It's just that there's a lot of them. For example, China gives out more emissions that the US of A by a good margin, since it has about 4x the pop, even tho the average amount per capita is sporting a 3:1 ratio in favour of the USA.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-06-02 10:17:30 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.
Lol, that's what I always used to say to my buddies. Big smile

Use more of that stuff the faster it's gone the faster people might come to their senses. Lol

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-06-02 10:42:03 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.
Lol, that's what I always used to say to my buddies. Big smile

Use more of that stuff the faster it's gone the faster people might come to their senses. Lol

best way to cut CO2 is to stop breathing.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-06-02 10:58:21 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
best way to cut CO2 is to stop breathing.

You might be on to something there, we should device a plan to achive that world wide.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-06-02 11:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Graygor
Webvan wrote:
Odd because I grew up in LA, grade school in the 70's, GenX and all that. One time they took us out on a field trip, to just a local park. They made us sit on the bus for two hours because it was a smoggy day... and the teacher started to tell us how teh world was going to end real soon like. Trying to brain wash us, and we just laughed at first... until the torture of just sitting on a hot crowded bus set in. I mean big deal, we were in smog every day, it was LA in the 70's and none of us kids were sick, actually everyone was fit in those days compared to all the fat sedentary sick kids today. We finally started about rioting, they gave up and let us off lol. They never reached us, and our grade schrewl official grad music was this, but not until a near riot when at first they denied our near unanimous vote for it.

Now kids are scared. They start on them with this really young. Little kids not old enough to reason for themselves, being scared into nightmares that the world will end over this garbage before they even grow up. Like this source that points it out but I don't exactly agree with his full position. One thing for sure, it's being waaay blown out of proportion, and they are becoming more skilled at torturing little kids out of their wits with this garbage. The same pitch they tried to sell us on in the 70's, just more deviously delivered now after a many numbers of years to practice. It's bunk!


Asians are going to eat the west alive.

Take those precious western flowers to China and see how they do.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-06-02 11:14:22 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
best way to cut CO2 is to stop breathing.

You might be on to something there, we should device a plan to achive that world wide.

let's be honest here: nearly all macroscopic life on this planet converts O2 into CO2. Plants, do it, altho they also do the reverse, animals do it, and many other microscopic life does it.

So, want to cut the CO2 increase? either stop breathing or stop cutting down forests. Since the first seems to be the most feasible way....

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#49 - 2014-06-02 12:46:40 UTC
Webvan wrote:


Odd because I grew up in LA, grade school in the 70's, GenX and all that. One time they took us out on a field trip, to just a local park. They made us sit on the bus for two hours because it was a smoggy day... and the teacher started to tell us how teh world was going to end real soon like. Trying to brain wash us, and we just laughed at first... until the torture of just sitting on a hot crowded bus set in. I mean big deal, we were in smog every day, it was LA in the 70's and none of us kids were sick, actually everyone was fit in those days compared to all the fat sedentary sick kids today. We finally started about rioting, they gave up and let us off lol. They never reached us, and our grade schrewl official grad music was this, but not until a near riot when at first they denied our near unanimous vote for it.


Wow. Pretty scary for LA.

I grew up in Arkansas and Texas, and this was not done at all.

What I had to work on being freaked out about was the horribe things that were going to be done to us by The Christian God. Ugh.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2014-06-02 13:03:33 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.
Lol, that's what I always used to say to my buddies. Big smile

Use more of that stuff the faster it's gone the faster people might come to their senses. Lol


Crop yield is actually worse with higher C02 levels.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-06-02 13:33:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.
Lol, that's what I always used to say to my buddies. Big smile

Use more of that stuff the faster it's gone the faster people might come to their senses. Lol


Crop yield is actually worse with higher C02 levels.

warmer climate might actually make places like Greenland arable, or at least a major portion of it, together with raising the arable land lines on Siberia and Canada.

While more CO2 is bad for crops, It is more worrying what the effect of more atmospheric CO2 might have on general health. Decreased crop yeld per square km is only that bad if you actually lose those square km on where to farm.



then again, the loss of square km by sea level rising might counterbalance those square km we gain by the receding permafrost on the northern hemisphere.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2014-06-02 13:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Grimpak wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.
Lol, that's what I always used to say to my buddies. Big smile

Use more of that stuff the faster it's gone the faster people might come to their senses. Lol


Crop yield is actually worse with higher C02 levels.

warmer climate might actually make places like Greenland arable, or at least a major portion of it, together with raising the arable land lines on Siberia and Canada.

While more CO2 is bad for crops, It is more worrying what the effect of more atmospheric CO2 might have on general health. Decreased crop yeld per square km is only that bad if you actually lose those square km on where to farm.



then again, the loss of square km by sea level rising might counterbalance those square km we gain by the receding permafrost on the northern hemisphere.


Greenland and the permafrost areas will not be good for growing crops, there isnt the soil there for them. When it melts it will at best be moorland and at worst, a desert. It will take 3000 years at least before there is enough soil to grow crops in these areas. We have also lost something like 30% of farmable land in the last 200 years due to expanding cities, desertification and other environmental changes.
Claud Tiberius
#53 - 2014-06-02 14:33:11 UTC
I am of the opinion that the debate is over. The facts and undeniable. So now, you are either taking responsibility for the future, or not.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#54 - 2014-06-02 15:03:34 UTC
People that don't think climate change is real and that we are nagatively effecting the planet and atmosphere literally astound me. I don't need someone in a lab coat telling me (though I believe them when I hear it) things are changing. I can see it for myself. I don't need to be told Monsanto engineered and chemically treated agriculture is bad. That its killing ecosystems. I'm surrounded by farmland where I live. Huge agricultural federal lands. I've seen one, just one living honeybee in 3 years. It was so poignant a moment for me, I took a picture of it with my phone.

Glaciers are melting. The polar caps are melting. This is not fiction. This is right in front of our faces for all to see. And yet so many people just stick their heads in the sand like ostriches. Here in Minnesota every single summer is hotter and the weather nastier. And while I love it warm and toasty, I know it's changed and not normal just in my short life. I think it's extremely naive and dangerous to even pretend for a second that billions of people, vehicles, homes and industrial buildings of all kinds are not affecting the planet.

Big business, particularly the energy industry pays HUGE amounts of money each year to spread complete rubbish and disinformation about the climate issues. Why would they do this if they knew nothing was wrong? It's because they are terrified of an informed consumer base. Plain and simple. Terrified of change. Of loss of revenue.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-06-02 15:07:11 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Well the only logical thing to do is start producing more CO2, get the Earth to warm up a little, thus allowing crops to grow better due to the increased warmth as they do. But as long as these globalists keep harping on how we need to cut CO2, it will only lead to starvation and war.
Lol, that's what I always used to say to my buddies. Big smile

Use more of that stuff the faster it's gone the faster people might come to their senses. Lol


Crop yield is actually worse with higher C02 levels.

warmer climate might actually make places like Greenland arable, or at least a major portion of it, together with raising the arable land lines on Siberia and Canada.

While more CO2 is bad for crops, It is more worrying what the effect of more atmospheric CO2 might have on general health. Decreased crop yeld per square km is only that bad if you actually lose those square km on where to farm.



then again, the loss of square km by sea level rising might counterbalance those square km we gain by the receding permafrost on the northern hemisphere.


Greenland and the permafrost areas will not be good for growing crops, there isnt the soil there for them. When it melts it will at best be moorland and at worst, a desert. It will take 3000 years at least before there is enough soil to grow crops in these areas. We have also lost something like 30% of farmable land in the last 200 years due to expanding cities, desertification and other environmental changes.

hmm.. perhaps, but maybe some terraforming might make it arable faster.


You're right however, what's left from permafrost isn't really that good as an arable soil.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#56 - 2014-06-02 15:11:54 UTC
I for one can't wait to live underwater here in Florida. Maybe we can find some magic seaslugs that give magical powers when this happens. Lol

-k8

My Fanclub
Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-06-02 15:16:48 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
I for one can't wait to live underwater here in Florida. Maybe we can find some magic seaslugs that give magical powers when this happens. Lol


Floridas new state anthem.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate
Sturmwolke
#58 - 2014-06-02 15:17:52 UTC
The main driver of this climate change BS is the carbon tax scam.
There you go, a piggybank from nothing. Big smile It's a classic.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#59 - 2014-06-02 15:20:18 UTC
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
I don't follow you here...
It's failing. The sales pitch they use are the original promises, but since the introduction of these crops the use of herbicides and pesticides goes up 25% each year (guess you didn't bother to check out my links for researching what I claimed). Meanwhile farms are being poisoned with this high usage of chemicals, the ground contaminated, as well as adjacent farms being effected in a lot of ways even though they may themselves be traditional or organic farms. It's just a matter of time before complete failure, but in the meantime they get rich. Famine and war will most likely follow, famine can do that.

Even if global warming/climate change were real, pfff the coffin may be nailed shut long before any real results for that ever actually kicks in, from failing farms which is happening now and for real. BTW, the same climate crud I heard back in the 70's that we were all suppose to be dead from already, long ago, freakin running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Now they screw with the numbers, caught red handed doing that, same chart that HBO guy flashed behind him on the screen in the OP vid, and I linked that vid that someone interested in research may get a start off of. That vid was all whitewash in the OP, only around 50% are fooled from it enough to care at all, not the 75-90%. We can invent numbers for public opinions or actual climate data all day long, they certainly did for the climate data already. It's good business I guess, lots of money to be made. Monsanto, green energy, environmental regulation, book deals, movies, talk circuits, research grants etc etc etc. Big paydays to be hads.



Ah Ok, so we're already screwed...Gotcha.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#60 - 2014-06-02 15:27:19 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:


Action is being taken, sort of, the EU has pretty stringent regulations when it comes to emissions. Why they'd close down a nuclear plant tho is beyond me, but fact of the matter is that the majority of people with access to technology have a small carbon footprint. It's just that there's a lot of them. For example, China gives out more emissions that the US of A by a good margin, since it has about 4x the pop, even tho the average amount per capita is sporting a 3:1 ratio in favour of the USA.



But now imagine if china does reach the same level of living that's in the USA and end up having the same carbon footprint per capita, and with all that population?...Yikes.


Their the only economy that is still growing by leaps and bounds( between 8 and 10% per year), and already surpass the USA in GDP....New lion in coming into town and even the USA speaks gently about them as they have nukes and they control about 1.5 trillion of the USA debt in government bonds, so tough talk won't work.