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Dedicated missile user
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Madrax Muvila

Doomheim

Likes received: 13

#21 - 2014-05-27 23:52:57 UTC

Cheers Zarnak that's good info.

I am fully aware of how missiles apply their damage but I was planning on doing a post on my blog about it so might juts steal some of your post for it if you don't mind. It's good to newer players (Don't be fooled by my toons age Twisted

)

The thing that I find is that people still after all these years think that if they fly/fit their missile ships like they would their turrets ships it will perform just the same. Then they wonder why their performance with missiles sucks compared to what they are used to.

Missiles are what I call a basic weapon system. As you only need to really consider 2 things when working out how to apply their damage. Speed and Sig of target. I assume that if you are engaging with missiles you will always be in range.

Whereas on turrets ships you have to also consider the Gun sig to target sig ratio and tracking of your target and whether you are fighting in optimal range or falloff and if so how far into falloff.

Who needs SP!

http://killingitineve.wordpress.com/

Chessur

Full Broadside

Deepwater Hooligans

Likes received: 633

#22 - 2014-05-28 11:09:25 UTC

Madrax Muvila wrote:

Chessur wrote:

Alexi Drakenovich wrote:

Light Missile Launchers have a reload time of 35 seconds for me, and I can chew through most frigates and some cruisers, then again my missile skills are high and my implants effect that stuff, but the reload time is 100% 35 seconds, I don't know if there Is away to make it go faster, but it with basic skills should fire a light missile every 4.14 seconds right? With 19 light missiles in the clip, that's 76 seconds of fighting, now, depending on your ship bonuses and how many light missile launchers you have you should get up there in the volley damage, my raven does volleys of 700-800 damage I think every 4.14 seconds, and my RHML is in the 2000 range

35 or 40 seconds, of 0 DPS. In both situations as a solo / small gang ship- you are dead.

RHML's are quite possibly the only weapon system that is worse than RLMs. RHML"s get ZERO ship bonuses applied to them. HML's are horrible weapons, they literally have nothing going for them. At least Light missiles can apply damage to ships. On a BS especially, you are always better off using Cruise missiles

Once again you are totally missing the point I was making.

IF YOU COULD KILL IT WITH THE OLD RLML CARACAL YOU CAN KILL IT WITH THE NEW VERSION.

There you go nice and bold for you

What most people are whining about, and I suspect you are in this category as well, is that they are now less effective against cruisers then they got used to. They are still hell to frigates as they always were

The sustained DPS from the new version with a 2-3 grouping split is within 5-10 DPS of the old version.
It takes 32 sec (with server tick timing) to unload a full mag of light missiles. therefore you only have 5 secs of 0 dps. The net result is that you can achieve almost identical sustained DPS as the old version with no 10s reload in the middle so it actually feels like they are putting out more damage from a receivers point of view.

Really Chessur mate you are better than just getting stuck in a simple pattern of fire all the things and wait out a huge reload. or have you just gotten lazy with your super linked ship that you no longer actually think about what or how your do stuff?

The damage selection aspect is a bit trickier. However it only really applies if you fully group all your launchers. But that is where is lands firmly in what I have said for years. 90% of the fight is won before you actually engage in combat. you pick the wrong damage type and you will be scuppered.

Yah, I'm done trying to have any type of conversation with you. 2/3 launchers does not equate to a full 6 launcher setup. You seriously believe you are within 5/10 dps of a full 6 launcher RLM ship? using half your turrets? Are you dense? Pick the wrong damage trype? Only takes you 10 sec to reload? If you are asking advice from superior PvP players- stop arguing with them when they try and give you advice.

I can no longer get on this level of stupid. good day sir

Madrax Muvila

Doomheim

Likes received: 13

#23 - 2014-05-29 06:56:33 UTC

Chessur wrote:

I'm not asking advice from 'superior' PVP players. I'm asking advice of pvp'ers. If you think you are superior then more fool you

As for the DPS from a RLML caracal you seem to have some issue with basic maths. In all my posts I have been saying that the SUSTAINED DPS of a RLML fit caracal is almost identical to the OLD RLML which you used to be a big fan of. Don't be fooled by the character age I am posting on. I flew the old RLML caracal and had good success with it. The new can do everything that the old one can just as easily apart from some slight increase in fitting of the launchers.

The FULL DPS can only be applied for the 32s it takes to unload a full magazine. Then you wait 35s to reload. However if you split your launchers 2/3 then you get the SAME SUSTAINED....SUSTAINED DPS over an extended period of time. And guess what? That SUSTAINED DPS is almost identical to the old RLML fit caracal.

Now feel free to completely miss the entire point of the argument being that the 'new' can do whatever the 'old' one can. And if you can't make it do what you used to do then it you who have failed to think outside of the box and will forever think that it is 'broken'

I can take your level of stupid for as long as you keep showing it. Shocked

Who needs SP!

http://killingitineve.wordpress.com/

Horus H'kaan

Grand Theft Enyo

Likes received: 33

#24 - 2014-06-01 20:02:57 UTC

Madrax Muvila wrote:

I flew the old RLML caracal and had good success with it. The new can do everything that the old one can just as easily apart from some slight increase in fitting of the launchers.

No it can't. Not even close. I couldn't care less about your claim that splitting launchers and staggering reloads produces similar DPS. The problem lies in the utter inflexibility of the weapon system. The moment you need to switch ammo to react to a new high priority target you're stuck doing jack all for over half a minute. When you fly solo or in a small gang you cannot afford that lack of dps - it WILL get you and your wingmen killed. The RLML change completely murdered the Caracal and Scythe Fleet Issue for small scale nano combat.

I'd give my toon's cybernetic left nut to have the old RLMLs back. Either that, or make HMLs somewhat useful.

I'm in your mission, stealin' your loots.

Zarnak Wulf

Task Force 641

Empyrean Edict

Likes received: 1,855

#25 - 2014-06-02 00:36:33 UTC

Splitting turrets is bizarre but the hate on RLML is a bit misplaced. Like everything else in Eve their use is situational. If a magic wand could be waved and the ammo swap issue could be fixed they would be nearly perfect in my eyes.

FW Bellicose:
Highs:
RLML II x 4
Mids:
10MN MWD
PWNG TP x 2
LSE II x 2 (have to meta w/o fitting implants)
Lows:
DC II
BCU II x 3
Rigs:
Flare
Rigor
Hydraulic bay thruster

FW is frigate heavy and I use this in two circumstances. My amigos have a fight ongoing - so I load the appropriate ammo before undocking. In this case I'm fleet support in an 'Ewar' cruiser- point not needed. Alternatively I want to run a medium plex and simply want to push off any intruders. 45 km off the warp in and spamming the dscan usually gives me enough time to reload. It's also funny how many kills this thing gets even without a point while plexing.

Missile speed / explosion velocity / explosion radius = 6469 m/s / 293 m/s / 26m
Two overheated TP blow up a target's sig by ~147%. Using the equation above in the thread a Rifter or Atron using a MWD have to exceed 5847 m/s before damage would be reduced through speed tanking. That is rather plain Jane though. Add in implants and standard crash and you are looking at 6792 m/s / 308 m/s / 19m. That same Rifter or Atron would now have to exceed 8411 m/s - a funny number since the missiles won't go that fast.

I understand Chessur's viewpoint. With a lock range of only 56 km and no velocity bonus for the missiles interceptors will dance around the Bellicose. I avoid them. But normal T1? AF? Dessies? The Bellicose' superb damage application eats them alive. My most recent Hawk kill was 10MN AB fit and I still had 7 rounds left in each launcher afterwards.

Madrax Muvila

Doomheim

Likes received: 13

#26 - 2014-06-02 06:30:38 UTC

Horus H'kaan wrote:

No it can't. Not even close. I couldn't care less about your claim that splitting launchers and staggering reloads produces similar DPS.

Yes you can quite simply. It's a simple matter of maths. Not burst for the 1st 35-40 seconds of a fight but once you are past the 1min mark the damage output is almost identical to the old RLML system.

And to be perfectly honest the old RLML was way OP. To be able to fit to smash frigate gangs and still apply good dps to cruisers was just silly. Now missile users have similar choices as turret users. Fit for you intended target.

As for the swapping ammo argument. Some merit to it but lets face it missiles have excellent tactical application. Oh boo freeking hoo you can't instantly swap to the favoured damage of all your opponents. Get over it. Lasers and hybrid are stuck with their damage types. At least as a missile user you get to pick your damage type. The tactical use then determines how 'effective' you are with they system.

Sounds to me like a lot of people need to stop thinking their missile launchers are gun turrets

And Zarnak. Spot on application of the RLML system. Nice to see some people can still be innovative and try new things \o/

Who needs SP!

http://killingitineve.wordpress.com/

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