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Dev Blog: Tiptoe Through the Tooltips

First post First post
Author
Tau Phoenix
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#1041 - 2014-05-29 18:10:58 UTC
Hoshi Sorano wrote:
Tau Phoenix wrote:
Or do you think that we are not intelligent enough to let us decide if we need this info?


Tau Phoenix wrote:
It seems you really are treating our requests with content and insulting our ability to use the information we already have in game.
(italics added for emphasis)

The word is "contempt"; I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to how this makes you appear.

Seriously, if you want to impress CCP (or anyone else) with your intelligence, I would highly recommend proofreading before posting. Barring that, please don't try using words that you don't know or understand. I think these tooltips are absolutely terrible, but you're not doing our argument any favors with this level of unintentional irony.



I would appreciate you from refraining from personal attacks over one typing error, it is not constructive nor does it add value to the thread. Cheers.
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#1042 - 2014-05-29 18:15:42 UTC
So...53 pages...now is the time to tell us when you will add on/off switch?
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1043 - 2014-05-30 02:45:19 UTC
Id like to request a delay slider for the module tool tips

These tool tips come up very quickly and its annoying when ur rapidly turning on /off modules.

If there was a 3 second delay or a delay slider it would be much better.



I realise u can turn off the module tool tips. I like having the tool tip to check my optimum range etc I just dont want it displaying instantanously.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1044 - 2014-05-30 06:26:27 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
Ooohhh look, a CCP team that has enough common sense to provide the players (read PAYING customers) with options to customise their gameplay:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/audio-customization/


Look at all those checkboxes and sliders.


CCP karkur, now thats an idea eh ?



So following on from this, it is obviously not CCP Company policy to be awkward and obstructive to their customers.

It appears that only certain individuals/teams adopt this policy and refuse to change or revert their blinkered ideas in situations where anyone with half an eye can see that they just don’t not work and cause major problems.

Just plain stubbornness or an inflated sense of importance, probably both.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1045 - 2014-05-30 07:04:57 UTC
Please note Rommiee that that dev also very explicitly said that he wasn't allowing us to turn off any sounds,

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1046 - 2014-05-30 07:20:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Please note Rommiee that that dev also very explicitly said that he wasn't allowing us to turn off any sounds,

We know that turning the tooltips off is not going to happen.

At least the Audio team are providing a number of options for players to make choices on their style of gameplay. The sliders introduced for the tootips are a joke, they do not differentiate between types of tooltips in any way. It’s all or nothing for everything.


The best scenario is to have a number of options depending on the type of tootip, as described in a previous post of mine, this could even be expanded further.

Rommiee wrote:

What we ask isn’t really complicated. If you insist on continuing down this route, the perfect solution has been provided a few times during this thread:



Provide checkboxes and delay sliders for different types of tooltips:

Essential: Capacitor, modules (range, damage, ammo type etc), fitting screen
Informative: Rollover on items in cargo, Neocom etc
Useless crap: Star, Station, Stargate, Close window etc



My comments were regarding the apparent general attitude of some Devs, compared with those on other teams which seem to be refreshingly different, and actually want the customers to enjoy playing, rather than make it as painful and difficult as possible.
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#1047 - 2014-05-30 07:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Malou Hashur
Rommiee wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Please note Rommiee that that dev also very explicitly said that he wasn't allowing us to turn off any sounds,

We know that turning the tooltips off is not going to happen.

At least the Audio team are providing a number of options for players to make choices on their style of gameplay. The sliders introduced for the tootips are a joke, they do not differentiate between types of tooltips in any way. It’s all or nothing for everything.


The best scenario is to have a number of options depending on the type of tootip, as described in a previous post of mine, this could even be expanded further.

Rommiee wrote:

What we ask isn’t really complicated. If you insist on continuing down this route, the perfect solution has been provided a few times during this thread:



Provide checkboxes and delay sliders for different types of tooltips:

Essential: Capacitor, modules (range, damage, ammo type etc), fitting screen
Informative: Rollover on items in cargo, Neocom etc
Useless crap: Star, Station, Stargate, Close window etc



My comments were regarding the apparent general attitude of some Devs, compared with those on other teams which seem to be refreshingly different, and actually want the customers to enjoy playing, rather than make it as painful and difficult as possible.



Absolutely spot on.

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#1048 - 2014-05-30 10:08:24 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Please note Rommiee that that dev also very explicitly said that he wasn't allowing us to turn off any sounds,
Well seeing as we don't even need to turn them on, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this tbh.

As I see it, we can remove sounds we don't want to hear and now even boost sounds. So why can't the tooltips follow this example?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Darin Vanar
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1049 - 2014-05-30 10:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Darin Vanar
Mag's wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Please note Rommiee that that dev also very explicitly said that he wasn't allowing us to turn off any sounds,
Well seeing as we don't even need to turn them on, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this tbh.

As I see it, we can remove sounds we don't want to hear and now even boost sounds. So why can't the tooltips follow this example?


They had three goals, admirable goals.
New player experience,
Better information, for both new players and veterans alike,
Be non-intrusive.

The problem is that they went forward with a "tooltip" design iteration to tackle all three goals. What do I mean by that? Well, if you really look at what we already currently have in space, is.. an icon, and when you mouseover it, it expands into text detailing exactly what it is and what it means. This is, by definition, a tooltip!

They didn't need to add tooltips on top of tooltips. :(

It was a missed opportunity for some very admirable goals, that could have used a different approach. Tooltip was the wrong way to go, Team Pirate Unicorns! A lot of wasted design hours could have been saved with a stronger team discussion before selecting "tooltips" as the answer for all three of the proposed goals. If the "old" tooltips were found to be lacking, the new tooltips sure aren't going to be much better, because they are still, technically tooltips. Albeit much less functioning tooltips that actually obstruct gameplay and litter the gamespace nonsensically. :)

TLDR: Off button for in space tooltips, they provide nothing new to what the old tooltips previously said, less functionality, and actually have the effect of disorienting the player in space.

Please don't waste further design hours into a feature that a) currently already exists b) functions much better the old way and c) the players don't want, see d)

d) Why do the players not want it? A) The old tooltips were faster, B) cleaner, C) functioned unobtrusively, and D) allowed you to maintain some degree of spatial orientation.

The current in space tooltips provide nothing of the sort and quite frankly, need to go. You notice any sort of circular feedback going on here? I sure do! Please let's just call this for what it is, a gamble that A) didn't pay off and B) is never going to be as clear and concise as the old tooltips, and C) will ultimately fail because of all of the above.

(Because I'm really tired of typing A B and C).
I admit, they gave us some humor, Station is Station, oh how cleverly disguised you were. You fooled me once, maybe even twice.. But now that humor is gone. There are other areas of the game that are sorely in need of attention. Did you know that mining drones don't even have a keyboard shortcut to.. you know, mine? Shocking, I know!

Hmm, maybe if I put that into a tooltip.....no, no, that wouldn't work.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1050 - 2014-05-30 11:23:40 UTC
Darin Vanar wrote:
There are other areas of the game that are sorely in need of attention. Did you know that mining drones don't even have a keyboard shortcut to.. you know, mine? Shocking, I know!



CCP Philosophy 101:

Why fix something that is broken, when you can spend countless hours breaking something that works...
Oraac Ensor
#1051 - 2014-05-30 12:10:11 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Please note Rommiee that that dev also very explicitly said that he wasn't allowing us to turn off any sounds,

He can't stop us.

The option to enable/disable audio already exists in the Esc menu.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1052 - 2014-05-31 12:04:47 UTC
And so the DEV silence continues.......hoping it will all go away
Arec Bardwin
#1053 - 2014-05-31 17:40:39 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
And so the DEV silence continues.......hoping it will all go away
It will, when people discover the 'cancel subscription' button.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1054 - 2014-05-31 21:30:50 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Id like to request a delay slider for the module tool tips

These tool tips come up very quickly and its annoying when ur rapidly turning on /off modules.

If there was a 3 second delay or a delay slider it would be much better.



I realise u can turn off the module tool tips. I like having the tool tip to check my optimum range etc I just dont want it displaying instantanously.




There's been a slider for around a week or so now?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#1055 - 2014-05-31 21:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Steve Ronuken wrote:
helana Tsero wrote:
Id like to request a delay slider for the module tool tips

These tool tips come up very quickly and its annoying when ur rapidly turning on /off modules.

If there was a 3 second delay or a delay slider it would be much better.



I realise u can turn off the module tool tips. I like having the tool tip to check my optimum range etc I just dont want it displaying instantanously.




There's been a slider for around a week or so now?

yes but a separate one is better Twisted

The delay is for all tool tips which for those that set the delay high to disable some they don't like the delay for the module ones is then to long.

In space bracket ones are not effected by this slider once it pops up.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1056 - 2014-05-31 22:43:07 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
helana Tsero wrote:
Id like to request a delay slider for the module tool tips

These tool tips come up very quickly and its annoying when ur rapidly turning on /off modules.

If there was a 3 second delay or a delay slider it would be much better.



I realise u can turn off the module tool tips. I like having the tool tip to check my optimum range etc I just dont want it displaying instantanously.




There's been a slider for around a week or so now?



You really have no clue whatsovever......
Emiko P'eng
#1057 - 2014-05-31 23:54:25 UTC
Darin Vanar wrote:
They had three goals, admirable goals.
New player experience,
Better information, for both new players and veterans alike,
Be non-intrusive.

The problem is that they went forward with a "tooltip" design iteration to tackle all three goals. What do I mean by that? Well, if you really look at what we already currently have in space, is.. an icon, and when you mouseover it, it expands into text detailing exactly what it is and what it means. This is, by definition, a tooltip!

They didn't need to add tooltips on top of tooltips. :(
You summed it up nicely!

If they had wanted to meet their objectives for the in space 'tooltips' that everyone would have liked, all they needed to do was to add a couple of lines of code to the EXISTING ONES that changed their colour against a light background like a nebula or a star!

You would have then ended up with easy to read, easy to understand & easy to use in all light conditions, 'Tooltips'

All for a couple of lines of code. Win-Win

Instead you wasted tons of development time on a clunky, screen hogging, only displays part of the data that USE to be shown, a set of semi transparent black boxes with bits of text in that are totally out of tune in what is supposed to be a Head Up Display!

I suggest you look at some of your own promotional trailers, they have a better idea on what a HUD should look like!
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#1058 - 2014-06-01 20:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Alternative Splicing
Steve Ronuken wrote:
There's been a slider for around a week or so now?


This doesn't solve everything.
Brackets in space/etc is still horribly broken, as numerous people have shown. Absolutely needs to be fixed as there are lots of people, including me, for which this change really makes playing the game hard.

Look how customizable the sound options are to be. Yet we have one slider for this. I actually liked mousing over my wallet and seeing how much cash I had, the tool tip presented new and relevant information upon request, but is pretty much gone when you set the delay to max to solve the other eye-jarring popups off.

Still rather upset by the tool tips.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1059 - 2014-06-02 06:31:49 UTC
Alternative Splicing wrote:

Still rather upset by the tool tips.


Everyone is, but the important thing is that some dopey Dev has got his brownie points for enhancing the New Player Experience, regardless of how it has broken the game for the other 99.999% of the players.

We are pretty much stuck with it as it is now. CCP won’t do much more about it as they are no doubt busy breaking another part of the game that works perfectly well at the moment.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#1060 - 2014-06-02 12:10:11 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

There's been a slider for around a week or so now?



Just noticed the quote below from Steve Ronuken's blog, which explains his complete lack of knowledge of how these tooltips have broken large parts of the game:

Quote:

I’m a High-sec Industrialist who dabbles in lowsec PvP


Enough said.