Player Features and Ideas Discussion

We have a saying here, "The wolf had promises, too." :)

The 'stupidity' is asking for your fit/tactics. Because they're almost certainly off - stoicfaux is clearing missions faster than a marauder and you appear to be toiling - so let us help!


You'll get no argument from me it's more 'effort' than a CNR - but it also earns more isk if that effort is applied. I can't spend 'saved' effort.

You need to help us out here, your posts are that it's not a very good boat but provide no pertinent detail. Be a bit like me saying the Mach is crap, not giving detail or a fit and being about the only one saying that.

150 pages and still going on in the same circles, not listening to each other and repeating the same things others discredit?
Let's "take this stupidity in small bites" (quoting you)
"So pay attention now" (quoting you)
Why would a ship doing more dps when flown well than any of those be inferior?
How?!

For me, being rewarded for being at the keyboard with more dps, and not getting bored out of my mind pressing F1 + "[drones engage target]" and nothing else *is* pleasurable.

Efficience... the new Rattlesnake is more efficient with my time than any of the ships you speak of, as it kills stuff faster. In the same ammount of time I earn more rewards. That is pretty much how I define efficience.
How do you define it?
How well it AFKs?

I agree, it ain't balanced.
It's a nice OP ship, with increased effort it takes to fly it.
Sure, it cannot destroy like a vindi at point blank range, but at a distance where the vindi's web doesn't help and blasters are getting into falloff, it's a lot sweeter!

The most efficient way for any battleship with 125mbps to kill small rats is to LMJD out, and *BLAP* them. Small drones? HAH!
The only use I found for small drones was against Spider Drone II, as they fly with some batshit-crazy 5km a second, so even with LMJD they close in just too fast.
And no other rat.
Even the 900m/s angel tackling elite frigates die well after a microjump.
And I wouldn't say many missions have an overabundance of spider rats. Maybe two a mission? And they don't hurt you one bit when you are out 50km from all other rats sniping with sentries and cruise, so you can ignore them all day long until nothing else is in the room. Or do they hurt your OCD?

Now, here is something I admit:
The LMJD eats cap, and as such it's not that useful on passive-tanked ships.
Good thing my first battleship was a Raven, so I had to learn how to cap-boost, paint targets, watch my cap, boost my shields, and order my small drones on targets different than my missile launchers.
Compared to that, the Rattlesnake is now more stronger, and not much more complicated.
If you ignore all that, and still call a navy raven superior, you just admit to being a troll.

What gets weaker in L4s?
Passive AFK fits.

Players paying attention and active tanking get a whole lot more out of the Rattlesnake.
Yes, please!

And to ask the counter question: Why can't you just understand that other people prefer other play styles? I am not an ISK-maximizing guy. I want to have fun playing. and this means sometimes just fooling around. And no ship is more forgiving than the rattlesnake (when fitted right) in this case.

The rattle is cheap because it is not a "high DPS" ship. But there is more in Eve than just earing more and more ISK. And those people loved the Rattle.

And no, I am not talking about AFK mission running. (Maybe a bit brain-AFK after a full day of work. But that is WHY I did choose the Rattlesnake. I don't need to make big plans. Get the target, get going, get it done. No need for a big fight plan or tactics to figure out before. Just go. Have fun. But thats past with the new setting. Needs a lot of planning now.)

Regards.

Edit: This ship had weaknesses. The weakness it had was called "DPS". Now it has the weakness of "being just one more ship among others due to heavy planning in front". The strengths were its forgivingness. A noob-ship if you want. But some people love exactly that. Now it has no strengths left where it would be outstanding. Sometimes there is more than just "numbers" to flying a ship. (Otherwise you would need only 2-3 Ships and a half dozen of weapons each shipsize. Factions would useless. But this "style" is part of the game. So yes, some people play the game "instead of the number tables". They do things just because they just feel better. E.g. trading DPS for a better feeling. -> Rattlesnake shined. Now its just another ship.

So you're sad that it got buffed? I mena I understand that you might also think it lost some role playing flavor but seriously this thing is a monster. It is still a forgiving ship by any standard and now its a brawling monster on par with the vindicator for dps, though lacking the 90% web bonus. Overall though trying it out on sisi made me cream my jeans.

175m3?
A full flight of sentries takes only 50?
You can have 2 flights of sentries and 3 of lights at the same time in your dronebay?

And if you have a mobil depot, you can refit your dronebay in space from your cargobay while shooting rats?

edit: oh wait.
Do you mean before, you had 3 sentries and 2 lights in space at the same time?

@Nalarin:
Okay, I am stupid.

--> Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)

I don't know how I could think it has only 50m³ of drone bay now. With 175m³ left, its stll enough. So please, scratch the drone versatility debate. In that case - with more than 50m³ drone bay, everything is fine and it is a good ship. I can swap drones when needed. That was important. So... mea culpa. :-)

To your question regarding the drone settings: Before I had 10 Sentries in the drone bay and a mix of other light/heavy drones. And depending on the situation I could set the drones to space I wanted, all bonussed (something I don't need on the rattle if everything else will "remain". Having light drones only as "tertiary weapon" is okay with me.)

Regards.

Yea, you would be wrong.

We (the CFC) are dumping years worth of what used to be useless Rattlesnakes onto the market which is forcing down prices. Expect them to go up slowly over then next year as our vast stockpile runs down.

If they didn't change the Mach to be symmetric, chances are not good here.
You can take a look even today, the Snake has all launchers on it from the Scorp Navy skin, just like how you can put the guns on the Kronos on the forward arms(fitting them first), or in the back (fitting 4 salvagers first, and then the guns), ending up with something matching a Vindi.

Sure, I'd like 100% selectable damage, but I don't want the Rattler be so OP that it needs a nerf, this way the nerfhammer won't be swung, and it won't end up being swung with too much force.

Torp...
A torp ship needs the fitting of many modules, and probably multiple bonuses to help it.
The premium Torpboat Golem has bonused painters and explosion bonus above the damage bonus, gets fit with T2 rigs and most of the time with multiple bonused target painters.
I'm not keen on trading away either shield resist or drone bonus for it.
Well, maybe the shield, but then it would probably cease being the very thing you like, forgiving.
The new snake does better with the cruise missile bonus (more dps*, range, better explosion radius) than the old did with Torps, with less fitting sacrifices needed.
(4:4 launchers Torp has a slight edge in paper dps against Sansha, but not in applied, an 4:5 new wins all the time when used as a droneboat and not as a missileboat.)

That's not a fault of the hull, but Torps being so unwieldy.
I never liked them on the old hull, they were still limited in range, more unwieldy against smaller targets, thus missions with fewer battleships and more elite crusers hurt you.


I won't convince you that all the changes are good.
For they are not.
I'm already happy I convinced you enough to give it a chance and not outright hate it.
No ship should be an instant win, counters everything with the same fit.
Heck, even I am not happy with some of the changes, but I see that they may be necessary in order to have a ship not needing a nerf that would undoubtedly go overboard.
For instance I wouldn't mind +1 slot for the lost drone versatility and split weapon system mayhem.

So, here's something that has been confusing me.

Why has there even been a discussion about the Rattlesnake's damage types? I mean, are we actually going to try and say that Thermal and Kinetic are... bad?

Really? Has it escaped some people that hybrids use those damage types, and that hybrids are pretty much the pre-eminent weapon system in the game right now?

I mean, how is that even in question?