Science & Industry

I partially agree with you here. Ammo, paste, fuel blocks and drones can make good profit, you don't have to take 10+ jumps to jita to buy paste or ammo if you have local or system 2 jumps away from you selling these at slightly priced values than jita.[/quote]



Buy orders is a workaround this, although I wish if it's wrapped in contract system.

I wouldn't be surprised if 0.0/empire connecting systems don't become a bit more popular for that sort of thing as people shift more toward lowsec/0.0 over some of the Kronos changes.

Most people don't mind heading to Jita to get the best buy prices or to sell good at the highest sell prices. Some other market hubs you can get higher sell prices, it all depends on what volume you want to shift or buy. Jita is the kind of high volume buying and selling. There's no system that beats it.

If you look at the price difference between, say, Amarr and Tash Murkon Prime, you might think of trading between those two stations. "Hey! It's 30% cheaper to buy at Amarr than at TMP! I'm going to make BILLIONS!".

Wrong.

If it takes you a day to sell 1,000 widgets in Jita and a week to sell that thousand in Amarr, it'll take you six months to sell that many at TMP. And during that time the price could have fluctuated wildly meaning you have no real clue whether you're actually going to make a profit or not.

The optimising power of large markets with thousands of players, like Jita, is the best place to head. So many people don't realise this because they're only ever heading out to buy 1 x Armor Thermic Hardener II, rather than 1,000.

Cooperation? What a fun joke. Some people do it, but personally I don't see myself share my assets worth multiple billions with other people to let them do stuff with them. It takes months to accumulate minerals for decent prices, months and years to research BPOs, but only 1 person and 1 minute to destroy that all. There is nearly no reward compared to the immense risks you take with sharing this kind of values.

There won't be enough of a move, in terms of overall numbers, to really make any difference.

People might spread out more, which is what CCP is more or less "encouraging" with the new costs of renting an industry slot in congested locations, but it doesn't mean that the "spreading out" will include Null or even much of Low.

And any one who wants to "rent" is already doing so.

What I'm really trying to say is that the impact will not be immediate. But, in time, you'll see the spread take effect.

The biggest party will benefit from the indy changes are renters, they have no interest in PvPing to actually join CTAs, they are relatively safe there and when things gets hairy there are big coalition to defend their space for them. Therefore part of these renters are focusing only on indy.

By taking a glimpse on Corp and Alliance recruitment section in forums you will find them are recruiting armies of ice/ore miners to keep their big machines rolling, they are placing sell orders at prices ofc higher than Jita and in same time coalitions aren't going through the hassle of importing all their needs from Jita, so It's win-win situation. If it's not happening right now, it will after indy changes.

I anticipate production for highsec consumption will remain mostly in highsec, production for nullsec consumption will partially move to nullsec, and production for lowsec consumption will remain in highsec.

Haha - Are you serious? Srsly, I tasked a corpie with just keeping 2 particular hauler hulls on market in ONE of our out-of-the-way Sov stations, and he can't keep up with demand!! And, don't even get me started about the PREMIUM markups that a savvy Indy guy can charge. 600% above Jita? No prob!!

True, there are large chunks of Low/Null that go unseeded (for obvious reasons), but there are large chunks of Null where you easily charge top dollar for T1 items--- and the buyer is simply happy they're on market!!!

Srsly guys, c'mon- don't pretend Sov or 0.0 "sucks to do indy in cause someone told me **they** hate indy ppl". Hell, Coffee is a SCIENCE toon, heh.

If you don't believe me, join a corp like Thrall Nation or SYJ alliance and see for yourself. 7o

No one really knows how things will shake out. However, it seems that some profitability tiers will be showing up:

1 - Solo high sec player or small and poor high sec corp with no POS access.

2 - High sec corp with POS access.

3 - Low sec POS using builder, low sec cap builder. The regular low sec builder will basically be identical in mechanics to a high sec builder, but will occasionally have a slight advantage in that there will be less crowding. The low sec cap builder gets a module that will help him compete with the null sec builders.

4 - Null sec industrialists.

x-factor: null sec renters (viability completely depends on how much rent the renter will extort from them and how much they'll have to pay in shipping costs.

In general the big leaps in profitability seem to center around whether you use a POS or not. Null sec stations will be considerably cheaper to use than NPC stations, but POS use can offset a ton of that.

The other big issue alongside the POS is shipping. Shipping is not too big a deal for those who have large and organized enough operations to fill JFs (with perfectly skilled pilots) to the brim with every run. For others, shipping is a considerable formant of industry. Further, shipping prices may (actually likely) change with fuel consumption adjustments.

Basically, like pretty much everything else in this game, if you're a solo and/or noobie you're pretty much working at a serious disadvantage unless you PLEX a fleet of alts. If you're a goon, all game mechanics will work considerably to your advantage and that, alongside your superior resources, will give you a considerable leg up. Everybody else will be pretty much in the middle with a slight advantage or a slight disadvantage that won't make an incredible difference.

As far as how this will affect industry remains unknown, but in all likelihood all the tiers will continue to operate. You won't have to move to null if you don't want to. And frankly, even if you want to, you'll have to be in the right alliance with the right friends and roles in that alliance to be able to exploit an advantage. If you think you'll just head to null as a renter you'll find the 5 billion a month you need to pay for your system will eat a lot of your advantage. If you think you'll just join a null alliance and go do industry, you'll find that you'll have to spend months working up relationships and trust, and in all likelihood the group you join won't really be on top of things and they certainly won't be interested in doing things how you want them to. And if you keep on them about stuff or ask for roles you'll probably be booted as a spy. The Eve player base is really the enemy of this game. Because of this, you CAN'T just move to null if you want to, and therefore high sec indy will continue, just with reduced profit margins.