EVE General Discussion

No, I understand that, but it seems odd to me that they'd give some people more free SP than others. The fair way to do it would be to give people their new skills, and then reimburse the skill being removed, since those that had it trained took the time from training something else to train that.

You get new skills and more SP.
You still gain and it sticks to CCPs rule that what you could use before, you can use after.

There is no need for reimbursement, you don't lose anything..

That's so vastly removed from anything “fair” that it's just laughable. What you're suggesting is giving people who already have more even more. You want to be given 1M free SP for no good reason whatsoever, and screw anyone who hasn't done the same.

No, the fair way of doing it would be to remove all the skills involved and only give you the SP back so that you gain nothing. This would obviously mean that pretty much everyone loses since they can't gain back the abilities they had with the SP they're reimbursed, but that's besides the point — it's the most fair solution.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

It is the most fair solution — everyone stays exactly where they are, time investment-wise — but it is also not even remotely the best way to do it. That's kind of the point: the best way to do it would not be fair, and you can choose one or the other.

The other point is that the whole appeal to fairness is just silly, since it is always accompanied with a suggestion that is as far away from fair as possible (such as the “reimbursement” idea — yes, let's give someone 756k SP on top of the 256k SP he has already been given on top of not losing any abilities… that's “fair” ).

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

It's 512,000 SP (Not 1mil SP) If you have CDO and SCO to 5. (Since you are basically losing any/all investment you put in to CDO which is a rank 2 skill). The Skill is essentially being completely removed for all intents and purposes. Additionally, your clone cost is now going up without any added benefit. So if you trained CDO at all and got little or no benefit on TQ with that skill you have lost.

In the past CCP have always reimbursed skill training to the highest amount possible (BC + Destroyer split, learning skill removal, Social Skill changes etc.) I think because of CCP's past behavior, and trend. A lot of people decided to train CDO before the patch (And as posted in CCP's original dev blog and forum thread, and it wasn't updated, only mentioned in a dev post 20 pages into a thread). And unfortunately, all of those pilots have now completely lost out, to say, if they trained something else. Claiming that they are still 'not losing anything' is akin to saying 'I mined and built my drake myself, so when I lost it, I lost nothing because it was free'. You lost out on the opportunity cost of potentially 7-10 days (depending on remap/attributes) you spent skilling Combat Drone Operation instead of another skill.

OH MY GOD a WHOLE week of training wasted ..... the horrors CCP plays on us .Wish you guys had played SWG years back , you had 2 weeks rollback meaning you had litteraly lost everything you did in those 2 weeks.

My guess is since a lot of people complained about ''omg i trained X drone to V and not Y drone to V because of thread X i now don't have the max skill needed for the change.So they changed it so wichever of both you have to V works fine BUT this being a game of EVE players offcourse that won't do because now you'll get the ''OMG because of thread X or Y i specifically trained droneskill Z and droneskills X to max level and as such wasted a week of skilltraining''.

I think we can say with a fair certainty that the eve playerbase is one of the hardest to please . Hell , sometimes i even get the feeling my wife is easier to please and trust me that says a LOT about us as a playerbase , and yes i specifically say US because i'm just a whiny little bastard like most of you at times ...

How about we look into this "reimbursement" CCP has always done.

Destroyer/Battlecruiser changes:
Skill was split into 4 different ones ( for good reason) and you got equal amount in all 4 based on original skill level. Any reimbursement? nope.

Learning skills:
Completely removed and no replacement skill. SP reimbursed. It doesn't matter if everyone got the bonus or if CCP said "f*ck it we're lowering everyone's attribute levels" you still would have gotten reimbursement no matter what the following change was.

Social skills:
I can't remember what happened and can't find the blog but I'll be willing to bet they followed the same patterns as before.

Wasted SP on proposed skill changes? That's not anyone's problem but your own. If you decide to speculate on proposed changes before they are launched in order to take advantage of free SP (or lucrative market deals in some cases) and lose out, that is your problem. It's a risk you took and if it backfired, that's how risks work. No different than real life speculation.

And on the CDO/SDO changes:
They didnt have may options when it came to a fair way to split the skills into medium and small scout drones. Rather than tying the medium and/or small skills to one or the other in which case, somebody would lose out no matter what, they tied it to the highest of both. If you had both to V you will experience no change. If you didnt have V in both you will only benefit. Because it is entirely possible someone has one or the other to IV and would get screwed in the change.

The biggest reason CCP isn't reimbursing SP is because that would imply that someone lost SP, like the learning skill changes. With this system nobody lost and some people gained, so there is nothing to give back.

If you had both to V then nothing was gained, nothing was lost, stop asking for free stuff, carry on with your life.

It's 1M SP.
256k SP is being given in the form of 3 ranks of skill that replace 2 ranks.
768k SP would be given in the form of a refund for the skills removed.

No. In the past, CCP has always reimbursed skill training to the exact amount of skill training if the ability was lost. So far, that has happened twice: with the learning skills and the division connection skills.

The BC and destroyer split did not yield any reimbursement, just more skills (same as is happening now with CDO and SDO). The Ethnic Relations removal did not yield any reimbursement either, just a straight transfer to a completely new skill (same as what is happening with SDO).

“instead of earning 768k they only earned 256k”. Earning less is not the same as losing something. And had people decided to not just knee-jerk-react to the blog and instead take a while to find out the details and to plan their investment, they would have earned more.

Oh, and blaming that decision on a development that happened in the comment thread is just lazy — it takes all of one minute to find it so it is hardly buried and it is entirely where you expect it to be.

Because it's their own mistake. The rushed to speculate on something that there was no need to rush or speculate on. They decided to gamble and they lost — it comes with the territory.

People think whining will get them a response out of CCP. I have no clue where they get this crazy idea.

both V