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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#521 - 2014-05-31 20:04:16 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:

Now you're trying to twist my position into something it isn't.
EVE is a social game. If you don't participate in the social aspect of EVE you're gimping yourself. A vast majority of people who play the game longer than 2 months are going to end up joining a corporation. This is an MMORPG after all, not a singleplayer game. CCP does little to cater to lone wolf play styles because that's not what the game is about nor how a vast majority of players play the game. So this is an argument of diminishing returns. I think the returns for valid input and ideas for the Features and Ideas board are far too low from NPC corp posters to continue to allow for it to happen.

If they want to participate in shaping the game then they should first participate in shaping the game. That way they're shaping their game and not everyone elses' game.


Just to check, you do realize that you would be prohibited from posting under the suggested guidelines, correct? (Though you would be able to post in FI, etc.) You have less than 10 people in your corp.

In order to measure the actual impact, someone would have to compile a list of the number of active players & the number of people in their respective corps/alliances. Chribba probably has that data, I'd imagine. (CCP certainly would.)

For me, one of my two mains would be able to post, the other would not. (I'd probably just move this character into a forum corporation, or a FW militia, if they were unaffected by this change.)

While I'm somewhat ambivalent about the idea of lowering the voice of the smaller corps, it's not without merit. It would certainly require slightly more effort to be able to post, which would cut down on trolling.
Naomi Hale
#522 - 2014-05-31 20:50:49 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Naomi Hale wrote:
And that is what this thread is about. People in NPC Corps being unable to post. I'm sure there are people in Alliances that have never done mining, run missions or been to wormhole. In your opinion, shouldn't their views on those features also be blocked or restricted?

Now you're trying to twist my position into something it isn't.
EVE is a social game. If you don't participate in the social aspect of EVE you're gimping yourself. A vast majority of people who play the game longer than 2 months are going to end up joining a corporation. This is an MMORPG after all, not a singleplayer game. CCP does little to cater to lone wolf play styles because that's not what the game is about nor how a vast majority of players play the game. So this is an argument of diminishing returns. I think the returns for valid input and ideas for the Features and Ideas board are far too low from NPC corp posters to continue to allow for it to happen.

If they want to participate in shaping the game then they should first participate in shaping the game. That way they're shaping their game and not everyone elses' game.

I'll concede to your point, just not by the OP's method.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.
Marsha Mallow
#523 - 2014-05-31 20:56:52 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:
I'll concede to your point, just not by the OP's method.

I don't entirely agree with it either. There are a range of less severe possibilities.

Having said that, proposing the most extreme one gets more attention Blink

When I've finished my exams I'm going to go through and gather up previous discussions on NPC corps and start one aimed at removing them altogther. Should be entertaining :P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#524 - 2014-05-31 20:58:15 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:


Just to check, you do realize that you would be prohibited from posting under the suggested guidelines, correct? (Though you would be able to post in FI, etc.) You have less than 10 people in your corp.

I never stated I agreed with the OP. I only stated my own opinion.

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

In order to measure the actual impact, someone would have to compile a list of the number of active players & the number of people in their respective corps/alliances. Chribba probably has that data, I'd imagine. (CCP certainly would.)

Semantics, go look through Jita or any of the other market hub local lists some time.

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

For me, one of my two mains would be able to post, the other would not. (I'd probably just move this character into a forum corporation, or a FW militia, if they were unaffected by this change.)

See first point.

Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

While I'm somewhat ambivalent about the idea of lowering the voice of the smaller corps, it's not without merit. It would certainly require slightly more effort to be able to post, which would cut down on trolling.

I just don't want NPC corps posting. I think having to train or find a corp to dump your alt into is hurdle enough.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#525 - 2014-05-31 21:12:33 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:


When I've finished my exams I'm going to go through and gather up previous discussions on NPC corps and start one aimed at removing them altogther. Should be entertaining :P


+1 to that. It would be interesting if you were automatically in your own one person corp (sole proprietorship, technically, I suppose)if you were not a member of a larger corp.


Kaerakh wrote:


I never stated I agreed with the OP. I only stated my own opinion.



Apologies, I misunderstood. As far as the OP's suggestion goes however, I don't consider the question of impact to be one of semantics. Removing NPC corps ability to post, however, no argument from me.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#526 - 2014-05-31 21:32:06 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Naomi Hale wrote:


The fact that ISD Ezwal has pointed CCP towards this thread and it's being given consideration is truly troubling.


What I find more troubling is a 5 minute newbie can come onto the forums and either provide an uninformed opinion or simply troll the forums with no constructive feedback and no consequences. The later of which is compounded by older players doing it as well with 5 minute alts.

Spare me from knee jerk freedom of speech arguments. All this change does is make the posting requirement 6-8 clicks away instead of 2-4(figuratively speaking).


If the industry threads are anything to go by clicks are a very significant thing.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#527 - 2014-05-31 21:33:43 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
While I'm somewhat ambivalent about the idea of lowering the voice of the smaller corps, it's not without merit. It would certainly require slightly more effort to be able to post, which would cut down on trolling.

And here's the rub: there is not a single thing in this world which is even a tiny bit harder to perform for a troll than for a legit player. Which is why I think it's a bad idea.

Giving the credit where it's due, La Nariz correctly observed that what would (IMO, may, at best) work is the retaliatory aspect but I don't like this part either for reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread: it effectively means that the forum would be self policing, which is not bad in itself, but this policing would be based on in-game power, which on the other hand sounds a bit chilly.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#528 - 2014-05-31 21:34:51 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:

But the OP (and subject of the thread) isn't trolls and stopping them. It's restricting everyone in an NPC Corp from posting in certain places and lessening the 'clogging' up on the forums. How is sorting through new player posts any different than sorting through forum vet ribbings?


You are incorrect the subject of the thread is improving the quality of the forums by restricting where npc corp members can post. The NPC alt is a well known trolling tool and there is a precedent for restricting it hence CAOD rules.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2014-05-31 21:41:29 UTC
Naomi Hale wrote:

Sorting through so much chaff? Have you read any threads in GD recently?

There are loads of reply posts that are one line attempts at humour, "in before lock", "can I have your stuff", "yummy tears", the list goes on. These are from people in Corps and Alliances. What's your suggestion for cutting back on them. You need to read pages of those posts to get to relevant replies.

Aren't they off topic or pointless chaff?

The fact that ISD Ezwal has pointed CCP towards this thread and it's being given consideration is truly troubling.


I'm fairly active on the forums so yes I frequent most sub forums. I specifically mailed each ISD I could find because I wanted their input on the idea since it would affect their space job. I also wanted another perspective on it. So don't go blaming Ezwal for anything. Did you actually have anything against this idea or are you just going to gesticulate over it?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#530 - 2014-05-31 21:46:10 UTC
afkalt wrote:
It's worth my pointing out, I think, that person(s) who were key players in utterly wrecking (probably more pages deleted than have remained at this point) the pirate battleship thread would not have been stopped by this proposal. I know that several posters in this thread will know exactly what I'm nodding towards here.

I mention this not to discuss moderation as such - more as an example/evidence of why I see this failing without ISD changes and with those changes, arbitrary banning/blocking/gagging/pick your cliche is entirely redundant.


Do you have a way to regulate F&I in addition to CAOD rules? I deal with a lot of newbies and mentor them so I see their input as far more valuable than the average person.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#531 - 2014-05-31 22:08:32 UTC
Catching up late on this thread, and just responding to the OP.

Having been specifically targeted in-game and having lost over 1 billion worth of assets painstakinglyy accumulated on my own because of a post I wrote on a blog, I entirely disagree with the OP's idea., including only allowing the highest SP character on an account to post on forums.

This would simply paint big targets on identified characters for expressing ideas here that lobbyists and power groups will oppose, and lead to consequences for them in-game. I have seen it first hand.

Let the trolls be handled the way they should be by the mod team.

Let players that want to express ideas that may be seen as hostiles to certain power groups and/or lobbyists have a t least some kind of anonimity for their in-game main character(s).

I, for one, would stop posting altogether without such anonimity.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Marsha Mallow
#532 - 2014-05-31 22:54:14 UTC
Saisin wrote:
I, for one, would stop posting altogether without such anonimity.

Without wishing to be rude: good.

If you are so obnoxious your remarks end up with ingame retaliation, you should probably rethink them.

Why should mechanics be exploited to protect the anonymity of those who persistently and deliberately evade consequence and interraction in a sandbox?

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Anslo
Scope Works
#533 - 2014-05-31 23:28:28 UTC
NPC Corps have communities. Those communities have a right to have their voice heard. Also lol if you tell me of all people that NPC corps don't have communities, culture or content they provide.

Just. Lol.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#534 - 2014-05-31 23:58:15 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
afkalt wrote:
It's worth my pointing out, I think, that person(s) who were key players in utterly wrecking (probably more pages deleted than have remained at this point) the pirate battleship thread would not have been stopped by this proposal. I know that several posters in this thread will know exactly what I'm nodding towards here.

I mention this not to discuss moderation as such - more as an example/evidence of why I see this failing without ISD changes and with those changes, arbitrary banning/blocking/gagging/pick your cliche is entirely redundant.


Do you have a way to regulate F&I in addition to CAOD rules? I deal with a lot of newbies and mentor them so I see their input as far more valuable than the average person.


You regulate it the same way you do any forum - correct and proper moderation.

You dont NEED the CAOD hoops, you need empowered and trusted mods (we have the latter, afaik) and nothing else is required - at least not initially.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#535 - 2014-06-01 00:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Saisin wrote:
I, for one, would stop posting altogether without such anonimity.

Without wishing to be rude: good.

If you are so obnoxious your remarks end up with ingame retaliation, you should probably rethink them.

Why should mechanics be exploited to protect the anonymity of those who persistently and deliberately evade consequence and interraction in a sandbox?


Something of an assumption that he was obnoxious - Maybe he just disgreed with, let's say the new order and lost an orca or two, for example. Maybe he posted a pimped PvE ship to the wrong place*.

I don't think we can assume that the people seeking anonymity are being douchebags by default.



*Hell it's already standing advice in mission and complexes to discuss pimped fits via an alt because failure to do so will result in locator agent flavoured death.

There is so much collateral damage caused by disposing of alt posting and yet all we really need - and I've seen no compelling reasons that I'm wrong - is more empowered moderation. If that doesnt work, then we go to the drawing board again.
Rass Kass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#536 - 2014-06-01 00:25:30 UTC
The OP doesn't want forum moderation. As shown by him completely ignoring every workable idea. He just wants to silence any opposition. He wants people to post using toons he can bully in game while hiding behind the power bloc he belongs to. Heck, he already tried to insult me once.

The OP has insisted that by blocking NPC corps the quality of the forums would be enhanced. However, he ignored the part where people pointed out that most of the trolls were in PC. His ideas doesn't address them in the slightest. If he truly wanted to remove trolling then he would support a lot of the ideas that have been floated around.

I'm now of the opinion that this entire thread is just a giant troll. No one could be so dense to believe that this idiotic idea, that is so easily bypassed, would work.

Goons are the most notorious trolls on these forums. So by applying the OP's logic, they should all have the same limitations place on there entire alliance as well.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#537 - 2014-06-01 00:37:03 UTC
Rass Kass wrote:
The OP doesn't want forum moderation. As shown by him completely ignoring every workable idea. He just wants to silence any opposition.


Opposition to what, exactly?

Rass Kass wrote:
He wants people to post using toons he can bully in game while hiding behind the power bloc he belongs to.


If you have evidence of bullying I strongly suggest you file a support ticket.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Anslo
Scope Works
#538 - 2014-06-01 00:39:51 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Rass Kass wrote:
The OP doesn't want forum moderation. As shown by him completely ignoring every workable idea. He just wants to silence any opposition.


Opposition to what, exactly?

Rass Kass wrote:
He wants people to post using toons he can bully in game while hiding behind the power bloc he belongs to.


If you have evidence of bullying I strongly suggest you file a support ticket.


I think the term isn't bullying. I believe it's being surrounded by vocal, vitriolic assholes.

I agree with him about it.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Rass Kass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#539 - 2014-06-01 02:27:41 UTC
From the first paragraph from Wikipedia "Bullying"

"Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Justifications and rationalizations for such behavior sometimes include differences of class, race, religion, gender, sexuality, appearance, behavior, body language, personality, reputation, lineage, strength, size or ability.[2][3] If bullying is done by a group, it is called mobbing.[4] "Targets" of bullying are also sometimes referred to as "victims" of bullying."
Rass Kass
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#540 - 2014-06-01 02:30:22 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Rass Kass wrote:
The OP doesn't want forum moderation. As shown by him completely ignoring every workable idea. He just wants to silence any opposition.


Opposition to what, exactly?

Rass Kass wrote:
He wants people to post using toons he can bully in game while hiding behind the power bloc he belongs to.


If you have evidence of bullying I strongly suggest you file a support ticket.


I said CAN bully not that he has.

The word can makes a whole lot of difference.