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Micro ATX based gaming PC, good idea?

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Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#1 - 2014-05-30 21:07:43 UTC
My current gaming PC is a big, noisy old thing, and I'm planning it's replacement.

While I'll give noise more consideration this time regardless (I may have gone a little overboard on the fans on the current machine Oops), I was considering using a micro ATX board for my next case to address the size issue. I know building it will be a bit more fiddly, but my main concerns are cooling, and being able to install a high-ish spec graphics card. Can anyone who's built one, or use one, offer opinions or advice? Thanks.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#2 - 2014-05-30 21:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
edit: oh thought you meant mini-itx. Micro ATX is really common, no real issues apart from less expansion slots. I don't see any real space saving difference between standard and micro. Better question would probably be is everything ATX becoming a dinosaur. I suppose for now it'll still be around for a little longer.

I'm in it for the money

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Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-05-31 05:10:04 UTC
I can offer you advice. It all comes down to your case if you are going for a high-end GPU and as long as you optimize for negative air pressure or positive depending on the type of cooler you are using, there is nothing to worry about s long as you have patience and take things slowly.

Getting the stuff in can be a bit fiddlier compared to a ATX case because of the restricted space but the cases I have worked with (FD Arc Mini, FD Define Mini and Corsair 350D) I haven't really run into anything I would call frustrating.

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ISD Supogo
ISD BH
ISD Alliance
#4 - 2014-05-31 06:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD BH Supogo
I have a 760GM-P34 (FX) Micro-ATX in an Azza Orion 201Evo mid-tower case and it works great. Gets a tad warm at times, like the heater's on in a room, but nothing component-damaging. Even fits a double-stack PCI-E GPU and I had JUST enough space to slot in a serial card below it. (Yea I needed a physical COM port for a project).

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#5 - 2014-05-31 08:21:09 UTC
That's my only concern, putting a rather hot video card in a small space. Otherwise it's not any different than a laptop or a tablet, though I've seen older laptops about melt through the bottom. Also would help to make sure you don't go with a mechanical drive, those generate lots of heat.

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Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-05-31 10:24:23 UTC
Webvan wrote:
That's my only concern, putting a rather hot video card in a small space. Otherwise it's not any different than a laptop or a tablet, though I've seen older laptops about melt through the bottom. Also would help to make sure you don't go with a mechanical drive, those generate lots of heat.


Not really an issue if the GPU has access to air and a way to transfer the hot air out of the case. If you are going with a small form factor build like I did for my primary gaming PC, you probably want to go with a blower for cooling (aka reference design) rather than something like brand coolers like Asus's DirectCU, EVGAs ACX or Gigabyte's Windforce.

I have a 780 Ti with a reference cooler inside a Fractal Design Node 304. It pulls in air from the side panel and transports hot air outside the case.

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#7 - 2014-05-31 10:49:15 UTC
Thanks guys, no tales of cooked GPUs is encouraging.

The case I was considering was the Silverstone SST-SG01S-F here, which looks like it has a reasonable amount of ventilation around the graphics card. And I'm in the UK, so it's not like high ambient temps are going to be a problem.
Sturmwolke
#8 - 2014-05-31 12:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Heat is never good on any electronics parts. Failure rates generally increase with increasing temperatures (exponential curve), you're basically taking a chance when you push the temperature envelope. There are different types of failures, common ones are solder joints (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1004378/why-nvidia-chips-defective) due to thermal stress and shortened capacitor life.

If you don't care, no worries. Just don't complain and throw tantrums when something fails. Big smile

My own rule of thumb, never push the max rated thermal design (80C typically). I usually try to keep my stuff humming around 50-55C max.
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#9 - 2014-05-31 12:41:34 UTC
How hard is it to keep GPUs, CPUs etc. cool these days? I've heard that as the chips have become more efficient, they kick out less heat, is this true? Pardon my ignorance but it's around 7 years since I last built a PC, and looked into any of this stuff.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-05-31 14:03:40 UTC
I'm actually really drawn to the mITX form factor. The difficulty has been finding a case with a smaller foot print than my current case. The one's I find are much shallower and shorter, but wider, which could make for awkwardness when put on my desk. Ncases' M1 looks pretty awesome.

One thing I've found extremely useful for getting a feel for cases is just buying them, looking at them, taking notes, then sending it back for the next one.



Just kidding. That's ridiculous. Hardware Canucks has some really awesome, well put together case reviews among other things.

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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#11 - 2014-05-31 15:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Smaller case with same internals means more power density which means you need more air circulating which means more noise.
If you want a silent system, you need to go BIG, not small. Huge case with huge "silent mode" (low RPM) fans would be the way to go.
The alternative (if you insist on low noise) is to use lower-powered internals (at the expense of performance), then a smaller case is fine too.

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Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-05-31 15:35:00 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Smaller case with same internals means more power density which means you need more air circulating which means more noise.
If you want a silent system, you need to go BIG, not small. Huge case with huge "silent mode" (low RPM) fans would be the way to go.
The alternative (if you insist on low noise) is to use lower-powered internals (at the expense of performance), then a smaller case is fine too.


Your knowledge on the subject is incorrect, outdated even.

My 780 Ti sits at 69C under load and 33C in idle and my Intel i5 3570K cooled by a Corsair H80 doesn't go above 50C under load.

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#13 - 2014-05-31 19:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
I'm actually really drawn to the mITX form factor.
Yeah, people are making game rigs with the mini now. I think that's what I had on my mind anyway (edited out my first post).. oh well late-night posting, but I have a micro-atx, pretty common now. But yep, mini-itx with regular gaming video card etc. They have made for really good fanless home server for years now, and nice they are becoming better game pc's. One day soon I hope to have a Pico-itx that blows my current PC out of the water Big smile

Aspalis wrote:


Your knowledge on the subject is incorrect, outdated even.

My 780 Ti sits at 69C under load and 33C in idle and my Intel i5 3570K cooled by a Corsair H80 doesn't go above 50C under load.
Nah I'd rather use a roomy case myself, lots of ventilation. My case looks like Swiss cheese and a single quiet fan circulating across. I work with audio so don't like vibrating vacuum cleaner stuff.

I'm in it for the money

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Aspalis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-05-31 21:40:24 UTC
Webvan wrote:


Nah I'd rather use a roomy case myself, lots of ventilation. My case looks like Swiss cheese and a single quiet fan circulating across. I work with audio so don't like vibrating vacuum cleaner stuff.


Personal preference. I have four Node 304s (Main, Emulator-HTPC, ESXi box and Freenas) and the only one that makes any real noise is my main box that houses a 780 Ti. I don't hear the drives in my Freenas because it shares a closet with the ESXi box that also houses a gigabit switch and a UPS.

Despite its compact size, I like the Node 304 because you get two 92mm fans in the front that are fairly quiet and one 140mm fan at the rear that is pretty quiet as well along with a pretty decent airflow. You also get three removable HDD bays that lets you mount up to six HDDs and while cable management can be a bit annoying, as long as you use a modular PSU and are armed to the teeth with zip ties, it will be nice and tidy.

Marcus Gord: "Aspalis is an onion. Many layers, each one makes you cry."
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#15 - 2014-05-31 23:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Aspalis wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Smaller case with same internals means more power density which means you need more air circulating which means more noise.
If you want a silent system, you need to go BIG, not small. Huge case with huge "silent mode" (low RPM) fans would be the way to go.
The alternative (if you insist on low noise) is to use lower-powered internals (at the expense of performance), then a smaller case is fine too.

Your knowledge on the subject is incorrect, outdated even.
My 780 Ti sits at 69C under load and 33C in idle and my Intel i5 3570K cooled by a Corsair H80 doesn't go above 50C under load.

First off, I'm not completely sure what you mean.
If you're talking cross-generation of course the performance vs power usage vs noise generated curves will be all out of whack, so let's talk same hardware generation only.
And if you're talking water cooling, it depends on where you stick the heat dump sink (since after all, the final cooling stage is still air), and if outside the case, that's "cheating", since you use extra volume other than the case.

Aspalis wrote:
the only one that makes any real noise is my main box that houses a 780 Ti

Isn't that basically what I said too?

There's nothing "incorrect or even outdated" about basic physics.
More performance (assuming same gen) means more power use which means more heat which means more powerful cooling needed, which means more air circulated, which means EITHER higher air speed on same cross-section (which means NOISE) OR same air speed on larger cross-section (which means either a larger case or more holes in the case for fans or "cheating" with external heat sinks).
Or, perhaps you meant something else entirely, in which case, please do explain.

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