Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Sigh another disappointment - rather than upgrading the Covetor and Hulk to be competitive all we get is more drizzle - stop telling us miners it is raining sunshine when you are pissing on us - again.

Perhaps we should just stop building stuff or even better - we need to have the right of refusal on our sales - in other words if we don't like YOU or your Corp - we can turn down the sale. How about that as a market enhancement.

But, since I'm only a very casual player these days as opposed to 20+ hrs a week, now I'm on perhaps 1-2 hrs a week - meh it really doesn't matter Industry still sucks.

Speaking of which - what you are proposing to do with improved BPO's is really the SUCK.

Star Citizen here we come.

The tanked Hulk fit you posted previously currently has a yield of 1367 m3 / min., while a max. yield Mackinaw hauls in 1718 m3 / min. with little compromise in tank, it costs less and has a much larger ore bay. The Hulk yield buff coming in Kronos won't change this.

A Hulk needs to be fitted for max. yield, or it is pointless to fly one. Saying differently just demonstrates a lack of experience with the subject matter.

PS: Many gankers has started to fit ECCM in their otherwise mostly empty mid slots, something which makes ECM drones even more ineffective.

The reason I also focus on the tank on my mining ships is not a vain attempt at making them unkillable. I am just trying to push the statistics, so my ships are even less attractive to attack, compared to those ships with no tanking modules fitted whatsoever. Do you and your friends prefer ganking hero tanked Hulks or brick tanked Skiffs?


The hugely improved agility of the Skiff, compared to the Hulk, is yet another reason why I suspect the Skiff will become the fleet mining vessel of choice once Kronos hits TQ in a few days time.

Let me Post a recap of essentially how Mining works in eve and why it is done in the first place.

To build anything in this game, requires minerals.

The most time efficient and relative Effort means to gather minerals is mining.

However, the act of mining is in short a cycle time game. We wait, and sit in space, in our ship, staring lazers into things.

Let's look at the cost of mining today in EVE.

1 Mining barge: 35mil easy
1-3 Strip Miner's: easily 1-2mil a pop

If you are flying a ship fitted with nothing but mining equipment and sitting in a belt, you stand to make on average, say in High-sec, something around 5million a Can on veldspar according to http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore

Now It takes a T1 barge, about half an hour or so right now with 0 boosts, and mediocre skills to fill a can. So in about, let's say 8 hours of mining, he's recovered his investment, maybe more if he's getting something valuable.

Post Kronos: Can will get filled still in about the same amount of time, be worth a little more, and the cost of your ship and fittings Near Doubled.

Post-Kronos, You are effectively, saying that you want to drive the cost of minerals, and mined products, Into a blazing fireball in the sky. Where you will increase costs of all produced items in the game, by about 60% on a low ball estimate. When we already are seeing Trit at 6isk a pop. When I played last, It was at 4, just up from 3.6ish. But oh, We can now fill our can 10-20% faster.

Basicly, given the nature of these changes, you are defacto shutting down the ability for new industrialists, and High-sec people to live off production for months of training time. You are causing a level of inflation to come where no one can afford to mine. The games economy will crash, as most indy pilots will slowly pack up their ****, and play something else.

I want you to take a look at what's going on, You are stopping your industrial backbone, the entire framework that EVE is built and won upon. To do what?

We are doing the math for you, we post it here, and we tell you these changes only benefit someone wanting to tout a Killmail.
The Tank on a Procurer is Vital and you're ******* with it. Skiff's cost 200mil+, That's never gonna be safe.

A Procurer can not even successfully tank Sansha Null Belts Alone, and you are NERFING the god damn tank? for Drone Damage Low Slots? Unless I can fight rats in the belt alone with this level of bonus I see no benefit.

A final word, Look at a little game called Face of Mankind, it died, because every change made it even easier and easier for gankers and pvpers to kill and **** with the industrial backbones of the entire economic force in the game.

Sandbox or not, giving more guns than butter to your player base means there won't be much butter in the sandbox very very quickly.

Edit: After a perusal of the Ore and refining changes, things become a bit more interesting. In short High-sec= Still ****** place to mine, Null-sec/low=METRIC **** LOADS OF MONEY.

Risk Reward values met better, Ninja mining ABC's a thing to do, and still little accomplished in terms of making it any safer to mine in EVE, though Co-operative efforts will have their efficiency and output increased by 10% or more, In short mine with a gang. Move to Low/null and stop being a carebear in high-sec is the word again.

Here's the breakdown kiddo's.
Ark is down to a 100 unit refine, with prime ark and max skills 20% more output than what it used to be and only requiring 100 units compared to previously.

Same effective treatment for the other ABC's, Let's not forget our freinds Spud, Gneiss, and the other mixed bag ores previously needing 400 or so.

This means, as a Mining operator, you get a bit shafted: Unless, you have a guy to do your refining at maxed skills and things anyway. Effectively, if you want to be a big indy overlord, max your refines and prepare to live in the minmatar station forever.

I think this should be taken into account with the new numbers on M3 per Hour and see how it plays out. New players may get shafted on returns, but if they are willing to go out in the new Cloaky Miner, and steal the good stuff from null in high enough numbers. I think there's a profit here somewhere.

Null should be the holy land of wealth and power, that includes the industrial backbone.

This means, effective next patch, Jita will finally, BURN. Logistic efforts of shipping in product will again Double in cost with freighter changes, making local production more practical again, also making BPO's a bit more easy to manage since you can make copies and research without waiting in a que.

Copy's will now be jumped in Black-ops or carriers, what ever flavor you like for transport, cheap BPO's will be jumped in as well. Modules etc etc.

Overall, Given the full scope of information, I think this puts certain alliances in an even bigger hole or advantage, though my opinions are my own, I wonder at the way this will all play out in the end.

TL;DR: Changes all make sense given Reprocessing changes that give us more money, Nerfed the rat loot reprocessing in high, and make Null the place to do more activities.

Zydrine & Megacyte: Now a Null Export and less obtainable high-side=more money

BPC's and Manufactuering now cheaper and easier in null vs High-sec

Refining: Easier in minmatar stations in null for lower skilled refiners

More incentives for Fleet and Corporation based Mining and Production:Bonuses get you even more now.

T1 miners will be the prime make-up of mining fleets, with Skiff's a running second, and hulks or covies reserved to Totally secure systems with dedicated hauling support.

People bad, changes good.

Hulk always was a ship for :strip mining: systems, that means not being afk shopping for booze.
It never had tank able to handle null and serious miners know this. Inferno happened and these upcoming changes are
comforting for people that actually have mining fleets. So no, you can't cherrypick sites in null in hulks. No you can't refine guns
and ruin two professions that supposed to be profitable.

As for the people crying over t1 barges. First step is to get t2 miners or don't mine at all. Procurer roams are fun, but it is hardly
what that ship is supposed to do serious stuff.

Hi capsuleers and mining people
great all these changes,but
where are the new ice /ore harvesting ships
where can i order a.. large industrial ice mining ship with :
specs:
8 ice/ore strip mining high slots
150.000 m3 hold
75 m3 drone bay
2800m3 cargo bay
5 mids / 4 lows slots

Thats all i want... a brand new BIG industrial mining vessel
and not all that yada yada stuff
and yes i am a HS miner and nothing more

Crystals are being addressed, but to the bulk of your point, if all this is really an issue you want a retreiver, end of story. The hulk/covetor are designed to trade convenience for yield, if you want convenience you don't want a hulk and quite frankly there is absolutely no issue with that.

Gee thanks for making my Mack unplayable since I now have spend 30 days training Exhumers to lvl 5 for it to be playable again.

You guys act like training is not a big deal. I am flat broke and can't even mine now unless I go buy a procurer and fit it.

Maybe this has been covered (I haven't read all the pages of this thread) but is there anything being done to lvl 4 mining missions? The retriever and the mack are the only real options for running a lot of these with out slow boating and jumping around constantly so nerfing them down is going to result in a direct hit to missions that already have a terrible return over time. Perhaps these missions are more rewarding then I was lead to believe and deserve a good nerf?

Hey guys, don't worry.

High-sec mining is done by noobs and care-bears, remember?

These are the people PvPers love to gank, so CCP wants to make it easier for them.

It doesn't matter to CCP that the noobs won't be converting their trial accounts to subscriptions or the care-bears won't be re-newing theirs. CCP makes enough money off the Gankers. The Gankers would cry like spoiled brats if they don't have easy targets (who can't fight back) to pad their killmails with.

I am a player who will ONLY leave High Sec Mining when I leave EvE online.

CCP will NOT convince me to EVER mine in Low Sec or Null Sec until I can operate a ship that can SHOOT BACK when a ganker approaches.

I'm not talking about a warship hull, either. I'm talking about a hull the ganker sees as a juicy, fat miner, but turns out to be hellfire and death to the ganker.

It won't matter if I can actually MINE with that ship as long as that coward ganker finds out miners are no longer guarenteed killmails.