These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

New PVE content for [CRIUS] and beyond

Author
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-05-30 21:59:25 UTC
I'm a little bit disheartened with the lack of solid new content in upcoming Kronos expansion/release.

I like the new ships and modules, the changes to drones, low slots on freighters and even the tool tips. I will actually miss the loot spew mechanic as it actually made me have to pay a bit more attention in hacking sites.

The little changes and rebalancing work are something I also think are great additions, and the work on new ships skins, overhauling the ship models and the graphic improvements are something I also think are positives.

Its just the lack of new true PVE content that i'm feeling we are missing out on. Asking for this is something that has been requested over and over again with the general response being that the content creation tools are not in a good place right now. Hopefully the switching to the six-week release schedule will give a team chance to work on it.

But to the point of the post:

I would like CCP to use the new release schedule to make some engaging episodic PVE content similar to the existing epic arcs.

Each release would see a new chapter released for the four main factions.

The overarching story line would have to have some overall lore consequences, with the number of players taking part in each faction effecting the direction of the story line. I.e. if the majority of all completed missions are Amarr then the overall story line favours the Amarr faction.

Players would be able to either take part in missions in high sec, with rewards equal to a good level 4, or take part in low sec mission with rewards equal to level 5, the difficulty scaling with rewards. However each character would only be able to mission for one faction, and they would not be repeatable until two later chapters have been released. i.e you could only re-do chapter 1 once chapter 3 had been released. Changing Factions would not be possible, at least not until the complete story is released.

The NPC rats coming for the improved FW plexs should be the basis of the rats for these missions, more like a PVP experience than a PVE, with less overall number of NPCs but damage levels higher.

The final completion reward for the series should not be released in advance, forcing people not to pick based on reward to grind through for max benefit.

Kronos is supposedly seeing the rise of the pirate factions, so to keep that theme going it would make sense if the story was perhaps a way of the empires calling on the capsuleers to respond to this growing threat, perhaps a pirate faction series could run along side.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#2 - 2014-05-30 22:06:56 UTC
+1 to this. It need not be every release, but every second, third or fourth would be great.

Side note: they are providing some new PVE content centered around Mordu and Ghost Sites...or something.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.

MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-05-30 22:10:38 UTC
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:
+1 to this. It need not be every release, but every second, third or fourth would be great.

Side note: they are providing some new PVE content centered around Mordu and Ghost Sites...or something.


It is something, hopefully they can use the experience from that work to develop more content. My overriding hope is that the any work done on this could carry over to provide a full revamp of missions and anoms
Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2014-05-30 22:20:10 UTC
An entire new type of PVE site, 4 new ships, not to mention all the changes to existing content and you still want more?

Maybe you should stop asking to make PVE more like PVP and actually go do PVP.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#5 - 2014-05-30 22:24:29 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
An entire new type of PVE site, 4 new ships, not to mention all the changes to existing content and you still want more?

Maybe you should stop asking to make PVE more like PVP and actually go do PVP.


Not seeing how the OP's offering makes PVE = PVP. PVP has a script like a story and tons of NPCs? Who knew!

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.

Myopic Thyne
Accounts Payable.
#6 - 2014-05-31 01:20:08 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
I'm a little bit disheartened with the lack of solid new content in upcoming Kronos expansion/release.

I like the new ships and modules, the changes to drones, low slots on freighters and even the tool tips. I will actually miss the loot spew mechanic as it actually made me have to pay a bit more attention in hacking sites.

The little changes and rebalancing work are something I also think are great additions, and the work on new ships skins, overhauling the ship models and the graphic improvements are something I also think are positives.

Its just the lack of new true PVE content that i'm feeling we are missing out on. Asking for this is something that has been requested over and over again with the general response being that the content creation tools are not in a good place right now. Hopefully the switching to the six-week release schedule will give a team chance to work on it.

But to the point of the post:

I would like CCP to use the new release schedule to make some engaging episodic PVE content similar to the existing epic arcs.

Each release would see a new chapter released for the four main factions.

The overarching story line would have to have some overall lore consequences, with the number of players taking part in each faction effecting the direction of the story line. I.e. if the majority of all completed missions are Amarr then the overall story line favours the Amarr faction.

Players would be able to either take part in missions in high sec, with rewards equal to a good level 4, or take part in low sec mission with rewards equal to level 5, the difficulty scaling with rewards. However each character would only be able to mission for one faction, and they would not be repeatable until two later chapters have been released. i.e you could only re-do chapter 1 once chapter 3 had been released. Changing Factions would not be possible, at least not until the complete story is released.

The NPC rats coming for the improved FW plexs should be the basis of the rats for these missions, more like a PVP experience than a PVE, with less overall number of NPCs but damage levels higher.

The final completion reward for the series should not be released in advance, forcing people not to pick based on reward to grind through for max benefit.

Kronos is supposedly seeing the rise of the pirate factions, so to keep that theme going it would make sense if the story was perhaps a way of the empires calling on the capsuleers to respond to this growing threat, perhaps a pirate faction series could run along side.


I like the idea in general, but some points stand out:
It doesn't matter if the rewards are released ahead of time or not, Sisi will show them, and even if they don't show them there, people will wait one day while a handful grind out the lines and report the results.

Creating content for one-shot usage is expensive, and repeating storylines feels very un-Eve.

Arguably, a lowsec version of this arc should be a level 4, that pays like a level 5, due to the raw, inherent dangers present in doing a mission in lowsec that people can know the location of ahead of time, those areas will be camped to high-hell.
HiddenPorpoise
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-05-31 03:44:51 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
I like the new ships and modules, the changes to drones, low slots on freighters and even the tool tips. I will actually miss the loot spew mechanic as it actually made me have to pay a bit more attention in hacking sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-05-31 06:19:55 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
An entire new type of PVE site, 4 new ships, not to mention all the changes to existing content and you still want more?

Maybe you should stop asking to make PVE more like PVP and actually go do PVP.

Expected this post I do pvp ive not ran a mission in more than a year as they became a grind.Improving this type of content will eventually lead to better quality null sec anoms as well.
The entire new pve site you mention is designed to encourage activity in low sec. It is not the same as improving the overall pve systems.
Is it really bad to ask for new content? 4 new ships, 3 of which require either grinding through low sec belts looking for a a certain ship, or grinding the same sub standard missions does not scream enjoyment to me.
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-05-31 06:20:58 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
I like the new ships and modules, the changes to drones, low slots on freighters and even the tool tips. I will actually miss the loot spew mechanic as it actually made me have to pay a bit more attention in hacking sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

LOL
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-05-31 06:38:52 UTC
Myopic Thyne wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
I'm a little bit disheartened with the lack of solid new content in upcoming Kronos expansion/release.

I like the new ships and modules, the changes to drones, low slots on freighters and even the tool tips. I will actually miss the loot spew mechanic as it actually made me have to pay a bit more attention in hacking sites.

The little changes and rebalancing work are something I also think are great additions, and the work on new ships skins, overhauling the ship models and the graphic improvements are something I also think are positives.

Its just the lack of new true PVE content that i'm feeling we are missing out on. Asking for this is something that has been requested over and over again with the general response being that the content creation tools are not in a good place right now. Hopefully the switching to the six-week release schedule will give a team chance to work on it.

But to the point of the post:

I would like CCP to use the new release schedule to make some engaging episodic PVE content similar to the existing epic arcs.

Each release would see a new chapter released for the four main factions.

The overarching story line would have to have some overall lore consequences, with the number of players taking part in each faction effecting the direction of the story line. I.e. if the majority of all completed missions are Amarr then the overall story line favours the Amarr faction.

Players would be able to either take part in missions in high sec, with rewards equal to a good level 4, or take part in low sec mission with rewards equal to level 5, the difficulty scaling with rewards. However each character would only be able to mission for one faction, and they would not be repeatable until two later chapters have been released. i.e you could only re-do chapter 1 once chapter 3 had been released. Changing Factions would not be possible, at least not until the complete story is released.

The NPC rats coming for the improved FW plexs should be the basis of the rats for these missions, more like a PVP experience than a PVE, with less overall number of NPCs but damage levels higher.

The final completion reward for the series should not be released in advance, forcing people not to pick based on reward to grind through for max benefit.

Kronos is supposedly seeing the rise of the pirate factions, so to keep that theme going it would make sense if the story was perhaps a way of the empires calling on the capsuleers to respond to this growing threat, perhaps a pirate faction series could run along side.


I like the idea in general, but some points stand out:
It doesn't matter if the rewards are released ahead of time or not, Sisi will show them, and even if they don't show them there, people will wait one day while a handful grind out the lines and report the results.

Creating content for one-shot usage is expensive, and repeating storylines feels very un-Eve.

Arguably, a lowsec version of this arc should be a level 4, that pays like a level 5, due to the raw, inherent dangers present in doing a mission in lowsec that people can know the location of ahead of time, those areas will be camped to high-hell.


Repeating storylines already exist in the epic arcs and cosmos missions, but i agree, it is an issue. I also agree that maybe the low secs should be like a level 4 with scaled reward. Making the location of the missions random would help reduce camping.

I think it will be the minority that will grind or use eve survival, but for those that don't they are only cheating themselves.
Sato Page
Auctor Illuminatas Infinitum
#11 - 2014-05-31 09:45:32 UTC
Last thing EvE need is more PvE stuff. HTFU or return to WoW.

Dinsdale Pirannha for [u]CEO [/u]of [u]CCP[/u]

Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#12 - 2014-05-31 10:00:39 UTC
I yet have to do the current Empire epic arcs, but I really liked the SoE one. It's a good story and introduces you to some of the most misterious parts of the EVE lore. New epic arcs that adjust themselves to the sandbox, depending on players' actions, is a great idea and surely fits on CCP's vision of EVE's evolving history. +1 from me!

It's sad to see so many people so stuck in their PVP they can't enjoy or even consider the existence of other things to do in EVE. This is a game so big, with so many things to offer, it's a waste not to try them all. That's what I do. It's like some people try to impose a way of playing EVE. This reminds me of "miner haters"... who can't comprehend the fact that each one plays this game as (s)he desires and that without mining there's no manufacturing and without manufacturing there are no ships, guns, fuel blocks or whatever, since the vast majority of items in the market are player-made and player-sold.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#13 - 2014-05-31 12:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Cant fault the principal of more is better, but...

This is a lot of work for something that will last all of 5 minutes before its boring again. to which the answer is not 'then make even more'

Quote:
It's sad to see so many people so stuck in their PVP they can't enjoy or even consider the existence of other things to do in EVE


this is a PvP game. its designed around player interaction and its widely regarded that the best content in the game is the content created by players.

PvE hardly ever holds players forever, it gets boring quickly as NPC storylines are interesting for ur first walk through only. After that writers must create more stories to keep u interested, and then even more once u've completed those stories. its a lot of work.

Conflict between players on the other hand, updates itself as players adapt. Players feel more involved with PvP, they feel they make more of a difference and u never 'complete the game' with PvP. It is more interesting on multiple levels and has very good player retention.

So although u dnt have to combat PvP, if u are the guy that does the research and industry for ur allies, or grinds iskies for allies so that they have the equipment and money they need to attack opponents, the game tends to be more fun, never ending and relatively less work to update and tweak.

thats why ppl and the game designers focus so much on PvP and player conflict. And often why fleshing out NPC stories take a back seat. But they still get mentions here and there, and the new exploration sites and belt rat hunting should be interesting.

TL:DR More is better, but i'd rather they focus else where at least for now.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-05-31 14:52:59 UTC
Randomized missions and EpicArc missions basically come down to using simple content management principles. Combat PvE needs a rework on this basis to allow for simplified management, balancing and addition of new content. Done correctly a developer assigned to lore content generation could easily add new arc miisions at regular intervals.

Why do this? Well...pve draws new players in and many players enjoy the lore aspects. Also many many hisec llayers enjoy PvE. Do they not pay for the game too? Surely they deserve some developer time on PvE missions.

Done well PvE missions could introduce players into others security regions on a regular basis.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#15 - 2014-05-31 15:31:19 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Done well PvE missions could introduce players into others security regions on a regular basis.


One would hope so. However it does not seem to be the case with existing arcs, exploration, incursions and level 5's.
Given an option, the vast majority of hi-sec players will stay in hi-sec, even if it means much lower rewards. If u force them to take low sec missions, they will complain or not run the arc at all.

For example, all these PvE hungry players. How many of u have ran pirate missions and arcs? theres a whole story to these missions, extra PvE u havent done yet, high rewards and tasty content.

im guessing few of u. The fact they are in low and null means many of u wont be running any of them.


Another common behaviour of PvE players is that they look to 'complete the game'. PvE players reach a marauder, realise they cant skill into anything higher without leaving hi-sec so they feel there is nothing more to do and they leave. It requires a disproportionate amount of work to keep these players interested.

Why not just make PvP more fun and attractive since that already works as player retention and the work involved is more tweaking than content creation?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-05-31 22:17:28 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Done well PvE missions could introduce players into others security regions on a regular basis.


One would hope so. However it does not seem to be the case with existing arcs, exploration, incursions and level 5's.
Given an option, the vast majority of hi-sec players will stay in hi-sec, even if it means much lower rewards. If u force them to take low sec missions, they will complain or not run the arc at all.

For example, all these PvE hungry players. How many of u have ran pirate missions and arcs? theres a whole story to these missions, extra PvE u havent done yet, high rewards and tasty content.

im guessing few of u. The fact they are in low and null means many of u wont be running any of them.


Another common behaviour of PvE players is that they look to 'complete the game'. PvE players reach a marauder, realise they cant skill into anything higher without leaving hi-sec so they feel there is nothing more to do and they leave. It requires a disproportionate amount of work to keep these players interested.

Why not just make PvP more fun and attractive since that already works as player retention and the work involved is more tweaking than content creation?


For the hisec players who like missions, industry, mining etc PvP will never be fun and attractive, just as those occupations will never be that for the PvP players. Both are an intrinsic part of Eve and the hisec players are paying customers just as the lo/nullsec players are. CCP should recognise that a large chunk of players want to minimize their PvP interactions and allow for hisec to be a vibrant area of space rather than some lo scale waiting room to enter null where you are treated as second class for producing the very goods that underpin the economy.

Forcing anyone into a playstyle they do not want will simply result in less subscriptions which can only be a bad thing. I'm proposing that PvE is improved to increase new player take up and give the hisec paying customers something to be willing to pay for.

I would also like for those missions to provide a means to entice those who are teetering on the edge of jumping to other areas. Missions that cyno you in to a losec pocket without running hi -> lo gate camps would help. The capsuleer is on their own to make their way back and would be warned to watch d-scan etc in the blurb. Once people see that losec can be navigated if you are prepared they will choose to go their by their own colition either as daytrippers or permanently.

It's this small % of players who are willing to travel across many areas that will provide the most dynamic content, but it will require dynamic content to put them on that path. I've been a GM in old RPG's and know how important it is to give every player something to have to strive for and achieve in their own field of expertise (keeping the combat Solo's busy in CyberPunk whilst the hacker cracked a system was a tricky one...).

I firmly believe that having a strong hisec, losec and Nullsec player base along with the incentives, enticements and need for at least some players to cross these areas would improve the whole of the Eve experience. WH's are something entirely different but the same content can entice players into those areas too.
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#17 - 2014-06-04 12:27:11 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Cant fault the principal of more is better, but...

This is a lot of work for something that will last all of 5 minutes before its boring again. to which the answer is not 'then make even more'

Quote:
It's sad to see so many people so stuck in their PVP they can't enjoy or even consider the existence of other things to do in EVE


this is a PvP game. its designed around player interaction and its widely regarded that the best content in the game is the content created by players.

PvE hardly ever holds players forever, it gets boring quickly as NPC storylines are interesting for ur first walk through only. After that writers must create more stories to keep u interested, and then even more once u've completed those stories. its a lot of work.

Conflict between players on the other hand, updates itself as players adapt. Players feel more involved with PvP, they feel they make more of a difference and u never 'complete the game' with PvP. It is more interesting on multiple levels and has very good player retention.

So although u dnt have to combat PvP, if u are the guy that does the research and industry for ur allies, or grinds iskies for allies so that they have the equipment and money they need to attack opponents, the game tends to be more fun, never ending and relatively less work to update and tweak.

thats why ppl and the game designers focus so much on PvP and player conflict. And often why fleshing out NPC stories take a back seat. But they still get mentions here and there, and the new exploration sites and belt rat hunting should be interesting.

TL:DR More is better, but i'd rather they focus else where at least for now.
I agree with you; the basis of EVE is PVP, be it direct combat or other kinds of competition, which are many.

With my post you quoted I was refering to people that just adheres to simply PVP combat and can't stand the sight of a miner; there are people around here that simply can't wrap their minds around the concept of someone liking to do that. What I understood from the OP is a kind of PVE related with the Empires' interests in a form similar to that of Epic Arcs, but one that fluctuates with player actions and its outcomes depend on what the players do, therefore affecting the ever-changing history of New Eden. That is, leaving the Empires relationships between them in the hands of the players. That could mean many forms of PVP, as participants would seek their Empire to be at the top.

I think that would be a quite curious kind of mix between PVE and PVP. Generally players would be trying to accomplish objectives imposed by the Empires, but would also be trying to sabotage the efforts of their enemies, and sometimes fighting directly.

It would be some kind of FW that actually affects the whole cluster and its history, rather than just capture-lose-recapture endlessly, and that involves many aspects of the game. I'd like to see that :)
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#18 - 2014-06-04 12:44:43 UTC
Creating always new PVE "content" is extremely costly and serves only a marginal clientele in EVE, who are categorically never satisfied anyway. It's a rational decision to focus on developing flexible game mechanics that provide enjoyment, challenges and player interaction on a long term basis.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-06-04 14:06:44 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Creating always new PVE "content" is extremely costly and serves only a marginal clientele in EVE, who are categorically never satisfied anyway. It's a rational decision to focus on developing flexible game mechanics that provide enjoyment, challenges and player interaction on a long term basis.



If the hisec folks who like this sort of content are such a small number how come the PvP focused folks keep moaning about hisec numbers and profits?

Done right it would not be costly, that's the whole point of Content Management. It would be simple to add new, remove old, balance loot etc across the board and on top of that add an underlying plot to the lore. Also don't forget that the marginal clientele underpin the industry of eve and will under no circumstances move to losec or null. They are paying customers too so if PvE is cut or nerfed you start to lose players and the bedrock of eve's economy.

There needs to be both productive and enjoyable PvP *and* PvE for Eve to continue growing
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#20 - 2014-06-04 14:24:07 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Creating always new PVE "content" is extremely costly and serves only a marginal clientele in EVE, who are categorically never satisfied anyway. It's a rational decision to focus on developing flexible game mechanics that provide enjoyment, challenges and player interaction on a long term basis.



If the hisec folks who like this sort of content are such a small number how come the PvP focused folks keep moaning about hisec numbers and profits?

Done right it would not be costly, that's the whole point of Content Management. It would be simple to add new, remove old, balance loot etc across the board and on top of that add an underlying plot to the lore. Also don't forget that the marginal clientele underpin the industry of eve and will under no circumstances move to losec or null. They are paying customers too so if PvE is cut or nerfed you start to lose players and the bedrock of eve's economy.

There needs to be both productive and enjoyable PvP *and* PvE for Eve to continue growing


Nobody moans about hisec numbers, most of the characters there are alts, bots and people on shopping trips or otherwise traversing hisec. Profits form hisec PVE are a separate issue and frankly those who keep whining about that are somehow obsessed- how much anyone else makes ISK shouldn't be an issue to anyone sane.

I don't agree with content creation being "simple"- you always need scriptwriting talent to write descriptions and stories, and developing development tools is itself costly. And in the end you will end up shooting red crosses, structures or picking up objects. On top of that, a typical mission runner does not in fact enjoy challenges or changes, but enjoys low-effort grinding gameplay. Otherwise they would not keep running the same handful of L4s year after year in the same ships and fits.

The mission runners of hisec do not in any way, shape or form underpin EVE's economy or industry, the people who keep our wheels rolling are an entirely separate demographic of much more invested and networked players spread across all over the space. Hisec mining plays a major role in supplying the industry, and until Crius manufacturing and R&I takes place in the safety of hisec, but that is going to change in a major way.

Anyway, this is all unrelated to PVE and actually just reinforces my point about the importance of focus on long-lasting game mechanics that allow people to be proactive components of the virtual world instead of content consumers.



12Next page