Player Features and Ideas Discussion

There is no choice when one of the 4 choices can armour tank using its new lowlsots, and one is so undertanked in the same way that its pointless using it.

Its not hard to see that the Fenrir/Charon will be used less. Hauling is about space and survivability, then secondly about 'speed'. Unless the shield tankers are improved significantly in this respect, they just wont get used. They will slowly die to gankers over time and be migrated to the heavier tanked ships.

Lets just reiterate - 3 low slow Coreli ANP on the Provi/ Obelisk is a huge advantage. Tank with no penalties. It cannot be matched without gimping even more the shield tankers. They can only buff their hull, slower and smaller cargo.

Can you tell me why you would fly a Charon over a Provi?

To tackle your key question .. I do not want 'no choice', but I am being forced to choose Provi. The other two are pointless and the Obelisk is just not as good.

Yeah, it's a bit of a nerf if you squint while looking at it sideways, in that you can't get back to the original balance of cargo+EHP in Kronos. For example:

Current Providence:
* cargo: 981,570
* EHP: 193,690

Kronos Providence w/ 3xExpanders
* cargo: 1,127,015
* EHP: 166,247

Kronos Providence w/ 2xExpanders
* cargo: 883,933
* EHP: 182,427

Kronos Providence w/ 2xExpanders + ANP II
* cargo: 883,933
* EHP: 202,669

tl;dr - Shield tankers, haw haw!

Subsystems are for T3's.. Freighters are not T3's, ergo no subsystems.

And if you can't sell your PI, you're probably doing something wrong :p

what?

i find reading posts like yours highly frustrating.

subsystems are not "for" anything, they are a special form of modules that can only fit on a particular hull. from a design and balance standpoint they are perfect because you don't have to worry about what would happen if someone decides not to fit inertia stabs, bulkheads or whatever, and instead fits a high meta resist plate.

the idea i proposed fixes that problem by using the CODE for subsystems that's already in place to force owners of freighters to choose between a predefined subset of fittings. thus, the designer already knows how much tank it can have, how fast it can align and how much it can carry and there are no variations outside of the predefined ones.

if you really need to, you can call them "Retrofits" or "hull specializations" or better yet call them "lets not get hung up in semantics and understand that the problem as presented is this: we don't want the ship to be boring, we want people to feel in control, but we don't want to create a balance nightmare where people feel they must fly one type of ship or they are terrible at eve. given the budget and time constraints we work with, we cant spend months redesigning the hull, so we work with we already have."

hows that for a name?

hi I think you need to take a look at the number for the charon freighters because by my number it should read 430000 not 465000

Because they specifically don't want them fitting DCU's would be my guess.

Subsystem is the most viable and "fair" balance proposal but is not as straight forward and easily implemented as low slots.

Jump Freighters - The available choices are not "real choices" for many jump freighter pilots.
Maximum cargo capacity is the only real option they have. Players aren't suddenly going to start paying 100% more to have things moved via JF. I don't fly a JF to be nice, I fly it to make isk.
As a Rhea pilot I have 2 choices here - Lose 50% income - Or - Earn the same income and be the highest risk JF.
112,500 shield with next to no resist and no way to increase them is just very POOR balance.

When balancing, T 2 ships they are all balanced individually, shield ships have more shield slots and less armor slots. Not all lowslots and NO tanking slots.

Here we have 4 different factions being balanced the same way (poorly) with only 2 of the 4 having the ability to fit optimally.

The only real way Jump Freighters can be "Balanced" is - Rigs or Subsystems.
Subsystems are by far the best option - These are T2 ships, so 2 Subsystem slots is not moving away from T2 functionality.

Subsystems could be,
1, Shield - Passive Invul > 25% increase to all resists > - 25% to cargo capacity
2, Armor - Adaptive Nano > 25% increase to all resists > -25% to cargo capacity
3, Cargo - Cargo Hold Optimizer > 50% increase to cargo capacity > -25% to speed, -2% agility
4, Covert Align > Ship will remain passively cloaked for an additional 5 seconds while aligning > only 1 can be installed, -37.5% to cargo capacity
5, Escape Velocity > 500% increase to speed for 5 seconds > only 1 can be installed, -37.5% Cargo capacity

How did subsystems for freighters come about?
New technology has been discovered, which will lead to major changes to the way the largest haulers are utilized.

A small group of enterprising young capsuleers have discovered new components through salvaging large, so far unidentified wrecks, in previously unknown space. Through reverse engineering, it was found these components could be made into subsystems suitable for use on freighters.
Due to the nature and limited availability of these new modules, they are expected to fetch extremely high prices.
It has also been discovered through testing that there is a possibility these modules will drop as loot if the ship they a on is destroyed.
They are often damaged when the ship is destroyed which requires repair before they can be reused. Thankfully the repair can be carried out by obtaining a repair BPC, these BPC's are generated as a by product of the reverse engineering.
The cost of repair is estimated to be around 50% of the actual build cost, this is made possible due to the skill of the original capsuleers when reverse engineering the primary components. The main components of these subsystems are rare and will be extremely expensive but the secondary items, required for manufacturing & repair are readily available T2 salvage items.

I could go on but your already bored and hate the idea, like it (but don't want to read my ramblings), or just don't care either way.

Your "problem" doesn't exist.

The changes as proposed are fine, far better than Rigs were, and the whole Subsystem idea, which IS for T3's, that's what they are coded around, is just silly.. You want to use a system T3's use, in a way they don't use them.. then say it's simple cause the code is new.. no.. what you're asking for is a whole new form of slot that isn't needed.

All the issues are addressed by lowslots.. If needed CCP can add more low slot items like they are with Jump Fuel Conservation, and with the Warpspeed, but wanting them to white up a whole new system for a non-issue for ships used by a very small amount of New Eden is silly.

The ships are fine, you pick the hull for cargo, agility, speed, or tank, then you fit it the way you want.. more tank less space, more space less tank, more warp speed, more agility.. you pick.. No new mods to invent, research, manufacture, etc [well some new ones, but those are for things they couldn't do in the first place..].

No what you are asking for is for a whole new slot to be added, with new modules, new balance to be tested, all for one class of ship.. Then you want to push it to the live server, which means if, like subs you REQUIRE them for the ship to do anything, means no freighters can do anything for the weeks and months it takes to manufacture the modules, that will be sold at costs that make current capital rigs look cheap.. all so I can do what I can do right now on Sisi with 3 low slots.


The fact you can fit a few BAD armor mods on ships doesn't make them viable for tanking. They add **** all to the EHP, and are far worse than a bulkhead. There's no special advancement that the Armor ships are getting over shield ones.. I will have no problem continuing to fly my Charon on the 3rd.. I will have a problem flying my Fenrir, but that's just because it's still gonna be an ugly ass sandcrawler.

You're taking edge case scenarios, that no one out side of EFT users give a hoot about, and trying to make a big deal about it. By your logic there are only 2 Freighters used now, most cargo, and most tank.. why would anyone use the others ? Yet I know for a fact they are all widely used.

And the idea that there's only one JF used is just as silly.. sure the tank and the like isn't as big an issue, but the FUEL is.. Many people pick their JF by Fuel type, be it the type they already use for their caps/supers, or the one most available in their region of space.

Pull your heads out of stats and look around Eve.. Eve in the few cases where there really is a truly OPTIMAL ship to use, it's still not used by everyone.. Even when the Procuror was the most useless ship in Eve, I had no problems selling them. And that's when using that ship was bad on every level.. You're arguing about such minor differences only 12 people notice, and I bet half of them don't even use the ships in question.

As underwhelming as it may seem a T2 Damage Control on a freighter would give it too much tank, especially with 2 RF Bulkheads attached to supplement. You may be moving valuable cargo and across long distances but you don't need 60-80% of the Hull hit-points of an Unfitted carrier in total. Not for a 1.2 Bil Cargo hold with an engine and optional Jump Drive that comes with a free cool paint job.

Lets admit it, most normal freighters don't leave high sec space, where they don't need that kind of tank, if anything jump freighters should be able to fit them because despite their situation they are still in more danger than a normal freighter going from Jita to Amarr 6 times a day.

There has to Risk involved in everything you do in EVE, if your really that concerned about a gank be smart about it and take steps to better protect such an investment. You know like don't go through Niarja with 6,000,000,000 In Cargo during prime time?

Just a thought

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If you realized how sub-systems came about you would know it was the reverse engineering of Sleeper technology that lead to an evolution of fitting and designing ship platforms, specifically on cruiser sized hulls. Ship platforms built off of Certain fullerides and requiring reverse engineered sleeper tech. All of which freighters do not require in the current meta, so to give freighters subs not only would make no sense ( as subsystems offer bonuses to mods fitted to ships such as weapons or propulsion ((Which freighters don't have ) and also change the dynamic look of the ship, which freighters dont need either )) but also requires an overhaul of their manufacturing system and in a way that stays in the confines of the lore of the game as well. You know for the RP Guys and gals out there and for balance
( Not me BTW )