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EVE's "No Fight" Culture

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-05-30 23:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I don't really play much anymore. I kind of just peak my head in every now and then to say hi to old friends, argue on the forums or maybe bash a free ship into someones face on the SISI server. Every now and then I get the urge to come back a bit more consistently, but I invariably encounter (fairly soon their after) those things that slowly depleted the fun of a game that I truly loved once so long ago.




I'd like to talk a little bit about EVE's "no fight" culture...

This is normally a trait assigned to carebears and miners. However I have found, through great pains, that it is an attribute permeating the larger portion of EVE's player base. To give you a quick example, I just came from a short lived 30 min session on the test server. There I encountered a player named Lee Janssen, who has about 2,000 kills on battleclinic.

He made a few blustery comments in local that made for good troll bait. So as per usual, I commenced taking a poo poo on his ego. Once I was satisfied that the wall of text that we had created in local was sufficient, I invited him to shut me up with a 1v1 in any ship of his choosing. Which was the point of the exchange in the first place.

But on SISI... a server with free ships, and speaking to a blow hard with 2,000 kills telling me of his awesomeness and my my own Crapulence (which honestly was justified in this instance) he declined to fight me. And so did his friend, who had been bragging about not dieing on sisi in the past 15 days or so.



Point

So if a player can log onto the test server and still feels like he is camping war targets who do not want to fight inside of a station in empire. (And this from players who have every reason to pew pew everything in sight and nothing to lose) Then what exactly are we doing here with our eve subscriptions? Straight


Now maybe it is just me. But if someone called me out in local and went out of there way to ask for a dual, I would be all over that with a smile. I figure we should dual more than once, get our friends and make a full blown vendetta out of it. Afterward, we would probably become friends. At least that is what used to happen when I did this, once upon a time. But these days if your not in a blob, or if you do not have so much RR on your side that you cannot possibly lose... you're "doing it wrong".


Is this the inevitable end to a game that has an excellent and balanced risk verses reward system, and a chance to lose your shirt in a blink of an eye? Will eve forever be filled with carebears who don't want to fight and "PVP carebears" who pretend like they do but in reality, won't undock without a sure win in their favor?


Will the "if it's fair your doing it wrong meme" forever eclipse things like "playing for fun", "That was genuinely a good fight" or "That was worth it even though I died?" Are the few of us actually searching for fun and pew pew forever doomed to be surround by people who are doing the equivalent of logging into Xbox live, putting in halo and kneeling in a corner so they do not lose their world rank?


I guess I am just asking what all of you are thinking...
Anyway... discuss.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

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Doreen Kaundur
#2 - 2014-05-30 23:13:49 UTC
I'll fight you. Ill meet you with my shuttle.

[center]1. Minor navigation color change. 2. Show bookmarks in the overview.[/center]
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3 - 2014-05-30 23:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Just a couple of comments:

1. It's the test server. There's equally no point to fighting as there is to fighting. Who cares; and

2. You've decided that all of EvE has an aversion to fighting based on one encounter on SiSi?

The only real comment I can offer is - my experience on TQ is totally different.

If you want to fight on SiSi, come to I-UUI5. If we are online at the same time, any of us in Alliance will be more than happy to 1v1 (and honour it as a 1v1).
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-05-30 23:17:02 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I don't really play much anymore. I kind of just peak my head in every now and then to say hi to old friends, argue on the forums or maybe bash a free ship into someones face on the SISI server. Every now and then I get the urge to come back a bit more consistently, but I invariably encounter (fairly soon their after) those things that slowly depleted the fun of a game that I truly loved once so long ago.




I'd like to talk a little bit about EVE's "no fight" culture...

This is normally a trait assigned to carebears and miners. However I have found, through great pains, that it is an attribute permeating the larger portion of EVE's player base. To give you a quick example, I just came from a short lived 30 min session on the test server. There I encountered a player named Lee Janssen, who has about 2,000 kills on battleclinic.

He made a few blustery comments in local that made for good troll bait. So as per usual, I commenced taking a poo poo on his ego. Once I was satisfied that the wall of text that we had created in local was sufficient, I invited him to shut me up with a 1v1 in any ship of his choosing. Which was the point of the exchange in the first place.

But on SISI... a server with free ships, and speaking to a blow hard with 2,000 kills telling me of his awesomeness and my my own Crapulence (which honestly was justified in this instance) he declined to fight me. And so did his friend, who had been bragging about not dieing on sisi in the past 15 days or so.



Point

So if a player can log onto the test server and still feels like he is camping war targets who do not want to fight inside of a station in empire. (And this from players who have every reason to pew pew everything in sight and nothing to lose) Then what exactly are we doing here with our eve subscriptions? Straight


Now maybe it is just me. But if someone called me out in local and went out of there way to ask for a dual, I would be all over that with a smile. I figure we should dual more than once, get our friends and make a full blown vendetta out of it. Afterward, we would probably become friends. At least that is what used to happen when I did this, once upon a time. But these days if your not in a blob, or if you do not have so much RR on your side that you cannot possibly lose... you're "doing it wrong".


Is this the inevitable end to a game that has an excellent and balanced risk verses reward system, and a chance to lose your shirt in a blink of an eye? Will eve forever be filled with carebears who don't want to fight and "PVP carebears" who pretend like they do but in reality, won't undock without a sure win in their favor?


Will the "if it's fair your doing it wrong meme" forever eclipse things like "playing for fun", "That was genuinely a good fight" or "That was worth it even though I died?" Are the few of us actually searching for fun and pew pew forever doomed to be surround by people who are doing the equivalent of logging into Xbox live, putting in halo and kneeling in a corner so they do not lose their world rank?


I guess I am just asking what all of you are thinking...
Anyway... discuss.



Oh and if Lee Janssen shows up here with a butthurt post it will further make my day Lol Becaue I think I have seen that name trolling on these forums before. It was interesting to see the stuff of the real man behind the keyboard today.

Lee, if you are reading this... with all my love.. Eternum <3


Looks like you met the "ELITE HIGHSEC PVP'ER" with perfect near perfect efficiency. Fights noobs and idiots in indies picking up jetcans. Go fight a lowsec pirate and you'll get your "gud fytes".

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-05-30 23:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Just a couple of comments:

1. It's the test server. There's equally no point to fighting as there is to fighting. Who cares; and

2. You've decided that all of EvE has an aversion to fighting based on one encounter on SiSi?

The only real comment I can offer is - my experience on TQ is totally different.

If you want to fight on SiSi, come to I-UUI5. If we are online at the same time, any of us in Alliance will be more than happy to 1v1 (and honour it as a 1v1).



*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


You are supposed to infer information based upon a single example and presume that the author is referencing that experience in order to explain a much larger phenomena, of which he has been experiencing.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#6 - 2014-05-30 23:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
War decs are bolux anyway. People that do that aren't going to fight unless they know they have the advantage. Factional warfare low sec is where its at, most of us when we are in a plex are down to fight. Look for somebody with a crummy security status, its basically a good indicator that they like to shoot. Maybe null, IDK

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#7 - 2014-05-30 23:21:01 UTC
Personally, my no fight mentality stems largely from lack of funds, not caring that much to refill them, and the potential to go afk any second because I work from home and am essentially on call.

Also cause I'm solo 9/10 times or know I can't take the other guy in a 1v1.

The Drake is a Lie
Namdor
#8 - 2014-05-30 23:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Namdor
You're not wrong.

The problem is unfortunately self-reinforcing.

If you have two players who are willing to roll the dice, they can do that.

Once one player decides they will only play with a stacked deck, however, things inherently escalate, because the other player is no longer "rolling the dice" - he's signing up for a guaranteed loss, so now he has to get the same (or better) advantages, and cue the metagame arms race of tedium.

My solution to this has generally been to fly cheap and engage anything that moves.
Doreen Kaundur
#9 - 2014-05-30 23:24:19 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Personally, my no fight mentality stems largely from lack of funds, not caring that much to refill them, and the potential to go afk any second because I work from home and am essentially on call.

Also cause I'm solo 9/10 times or know I can't take the other guy in a 1v1.


^this

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-05-30 23:24:37 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Personally, my no fight mentality stems largely from lack of funds, not caring that much to refill them, and the potential to go afk any second because I work from home and am essentially on call.

Also cause I'm solo 9/10 times or know I can't take the other guy in a 1v1.


Thx for an (actual) intersting post.


Why do you feel that you cannot take the other guy? Lack of SP? Lack of piloting skills? Lack of fitting abilities? Being outclassed by ship types?

More info if you please.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Namdor
#11 - 2014-05-30 23:27:43 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Personally, my no fight mentality stems largely from lack of funds, not caring that much to refill them, and the potential to go afk any second because I work from home and am essentially on call.

Also cause I'm solo 9/10 times or know I can't take the other guy in a 1v1.


Thx for an (actual) intersting post.


Why do you feel that you cannot take the other guy? Lack of SP? Lack of piloting skills? Lack of fitting abilities? Being outclassed by ship types?

More info if you please.



I've been mission-baiting a little bit lately and one thing that happens pretty often is that someone just assumes I'm flying with alt logi (I don't) and rants at me in local about how I just want them to engage so I can bring my alt in.

It's annoying, but it's not an unfair assumption, as I've also spent some time floating around pretending to me a mission runner in an attempt to bait my fellow mission baiters and the guy floating around in that juicy Vigilant sure as **** has an Exequror on standby and an Eos boosting in system
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-05-30 23:31:10 UTC
@Namdor

I feel ya man. Same thing happens to (more or less) and I too am always expecting a guardian (or two) at this point. I have had them swoop in onto tech I cruiser duals.

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Marsha Mallow
#13 - 2014-05-30 23:31:21 UTC
Y'know, you started that alt around when I started playing and I still remember you as being one of the biggest smackmonkeys in Rens.

Smack is foreplay. If you want a good fight it's worth treading the smack/entice line more carefully - but more importantly, show some signs of humour. Genuine ~he-man~ style raging is more entertaining to provoke then wander off and observe from a distance. Sounds like they pulled that on you.

If people on the test server decline your fights when there is no real risk, you might want to reconsider gobbing off in the first place. Or at least do it with some style.

There are FFA areas you can just warp into and blap away btw. Or just invite people you know and shout insults at them.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Namdor
#14 - 2014-05-30 23:33:10 UTC
Namdor wrote:
I've also spent some time floating around pretending to me a mission runner in an attempt to bait my fellow mission baiters and the guy floating around in that juicy Vigilant sure as **** has an Exequror on standby and an Eos boosting in system


Also I'll add that, he's not very good at hiding them. So while I would probably "roll the dice" on the Vigilant alone (and end up losing when the surprise Exequoror came in), I already know the alts are there, so it's not even a question. I can simply ignore him, or I can counter-stack, but there isn't even a chance of an engagement happening right then because the result is predetermined and known to all parties.
Serene Repose
#15 - 2014-05-30 23:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Heh. Maybe it's just me. But, I'm doing what I want to do with my subscription and I really don't see how that involves YOU (OP)! In fact, there's a new breed of player that's swamping our little home here that seems to think they have some overarching say over what other people DO or WANT to do.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


I do hope you're not one of these.

tyvm Have a nice day.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-05-30 23:34:31 UTC
This is my main and I have only been known to smack in Providence to the tune of "slaves row, row, row!" So I am not exactly sure what you are referring to. Sorry.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Django Askulf
Black Rebel Death Squad
#17 - 2014-05-30 23:35:28 UTC
Are these tears about getting blobbed, or tears about not getting fights?

I find plenty good fights, seems more like a personal problem.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-05-30 23:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Same here Ms. Repose. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-05-30 23:36:42 UTC
Django Askulf wrote:
Are these tears about getting blobbed, or tears about not getting fights?

I find plenty good fights, seems more like a personal problem.



Lee... is that you Shocked

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Django Askulf
Black Rebel Death Squad
#20 - 2014-05-30 23:43:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

Lee... is that you Shocked


Nope, Im just me. But if you have heard that before, maybe you should look within yourself as to why.

If I ever see Lee, I might have to thank him. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
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