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Why the Federation must be destroyed

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-05-30 19:31:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
YOU advocate peace?

I'm not the one screaming "the Federation must be destroyed" and calling Gallente "subhumans" in threads that have absolutely no relation to either the Federation or Gallenteans. I'm the one in favour of peace talks between Ishukone and Federal Administration which seem to have a realistic chance of peacefully returning control of Caldari Prime to the State, something the State will never achieve in the long term by violent means.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-05-30 19:32:12 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Doesn't matter, does it? After all, Sobaseki didn't found this State on the principle of destroying the Federation, simply on the principle of getting it to leave us alone.

We're about 55% of the way there, if you discount the Forever War. It's slow work, but we're making progress. In the meantime I don't really care what ideas the Federation was founded on, so long as they keep them to themselves. Not that they don't deserve a trial in the great Marketplace of Ideas, it's just that we already weighed them and found a number of them wanting.

Perhaps we should worry more about reforming and making our State more Caldari and worry less about changing other people to suit us - it's never really been a workable policy. Let's leave that to the Amarr.

Tuulinen-haan, the said Federation, as it has shown us six years ago, simply can't leave us alone.
We can either fight back, or stop fighting, surrender, and cease to exist.
So, there are generally two kind of Caldari peoples. First, who are actually Caldari, and who fight to stand as Caldari. And the second, who are not so Caldari, who stop fighting and would prefer to meet the fate of Mannars, whose even existence is not mentioned often, and who will be forgotten in thousands of years, becoming "just gallenteans".

Which type are you?


I like to think my record speaks for itself. I may be on hiatus at present, but I have well over a thousand combat victories in the Warzone. I'll admit that doesn't make me an outstanding pilot but it does mean that I fought the good fight for a year or so and was pretty effective doing so.


Then I will look forward for your return to the service, honorable citizen!

Quote:
It also means that I got to see first hand that whilst our efforts in Black RIse are absolutely vital for safeguarding the local State Citizens, there's no way we can actually win that war since our civilian government refuses to negotiate a peace or to expand the conflict to achieve a general victory. Without one of those two outcomes, we're always going to be of marginal value to the State, sadly.

Being a capsuleer is hard, since nobody gives us orders like in the Army. However, we have Enemies to kill, and goals to achieve.
We are the front line of defense of the State. Even while the Navy doesn't do anything, we still can do something.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-05-30 19:33:19 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
YOU advocate peace?

I'm not the one screaming "the Federation must be destroyed" and calling Gallente "subhumans" in threads that have absolutely no relation to either the Federation or Gallenteans. I'm the one in favour of peace talks between Ishukone and Federal Administration which seem to have a realistic chance of peacefully returning control of Caldari Prime to the State, something the State will never achieve in the long term by violent means.

YOU was screaming to "Kill all Caldari".

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-05-30 19:34:28 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
YOU was screaming to "Kill all Caldari".

You keep saying this as if people are going to start believing you.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#45 - 2014-05-30 19:36:22 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
YOU was screaming to "Kill all Caldari".

You keep saying this as if people are going to start believing you.


Didn't something like that happen after one of the times we annexed Intaki in the Warzone? The one where the Provists went beyond the usual mandate to control local space and started landing troops on the surface?

Anyway - I remember how beserk I went at the Third battle for Caldari Prime, so I wouldn't hold a grudge if it were true.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-05-30 19:36:56 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
By screaming "Kill all Caldari"?



[CITATION NEEDED]

Unfortunately, citations of chat are prohibited in this media.
Although, you can look at archives for Luminaire Solar System; 22 Mar YC115, 12:53:18.
Exact phrase of Ixiris was "Kill all Caldari!"

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-05-30 19:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
YOU was screaming to "Kill all Caldari".

You keep saying this as if people are going to start believing you.

They don't have to believe, they can fetch logs for Luminaire Solar System; 22 Mar. YC115, and look at what have you said 12:53:18.
Since, you know, it was public local channel.
I believe there were over 1000 witnesses to it.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-05-30 19:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
"I don't have to provide proof! Do the work yourself!"

Diana Kim wrote:
They don't have to believe, they can fetch logs for Luminaire Solar System; 22 Mar. YC115, and look at what have you said 12:53:18.
Since, you know, it was public local channel.

But no-one believes you, Diana! The only people who are going to check are the people who already don't like me and want a reason to justify it.

Face it, Diana - you've burnt every bridge and expended every shred of goodwill the capsuleer community is willing to give you. I can get away with anything as long as know about it and accuse me of having done it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Anslo
Scope Works
#49 - 2014-05-30 19:46:22 UTC
You can get away with it, but we all still think you're potato Ixiris.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-05-30 19:48:14 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Diana Kim wrote:
They don't have to believe, they can fetch logs for Luminaire Solar System; 22 Mar. YC115, and look at what have you said 12:53:18.
Since, you know, it was public local channel.

But no-one believes you, Diana! The only people who are going to check are the people who already don't like me and want a reason to justify it.

Luckily for me, your "no-one" extends only on a couple of traitors and your deluded self.
I am pretty much OK with that.

Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Face it, Diana - you've burnt every bridge and expended every shred of goodwill the capsuleer community is willing to give you. I can get away with anything as long as know about it and accuse me of having done it.

You are just another gallentean genocidal maniac, half of your Federation consists of low peoples like you.
But know this, you won't be "getting away" for very long.
Soon the State will come to your door and you will pay for your racism and attempt to "Kill all Caldari".

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-05-30 19:49:32 UTC
Anslo wrote:
You can get away with it, but we all still think you're potato Ixiris.

Oh no, Scope Works doesn't like me! Whatever will I do? Oh, I know, I'll leak more of your internal intel and the hilarious chatlogs we shared to interested parties.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-05-30 19:51:23 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Luckily for me, your "no-one" extends only on a couple of traitors and your deluded self.

Actually, as this thread aptly demonstrates, my "no-one" extends to pretty much the entire IGS sans Scope Works. Lol

Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Soon the State will come to your door and you will pay for your racism and attempt to "Kill all Caldari".

But as I've demonstrated before, the State has no interest in following you or your ideologies, and they certainly won't be coming after me specifically.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Anslo
Scope Works
#53 - 2014-05-30 19:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
See? Everyone knows you'd do that. Besides, everyone knows I'm potato. I simply embraced it.

I have reached a state of spudvana, where the food is plentiful and the fucks given are 0.

EDIT: So while he goes and digs through logs, I'll just insert a spoiler about telling him about some cloaky weirdo ships in a certain wormhole of a certain group of a certain mini-Sansha Nation.

Because reasons.

BEHOLD THE GLORY OF SPUDVANA

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2014-05-30 19:58:09 UTC
Anslo wrote:
See? Everyone knows you'd do that. Besides, everyone knows I'm potato. I simply embraced it.

I have reached a state of spudvana, where the food is plentiful and the fucks given are 0.

EDIT: So while he goes and digs through logs, I'll just insert a spoiler about telling him about some cloaky weirdo ships in a certain wormhole of a certain group of a certain mini-Sansha Nation.

Because reasons.

BEHOLD THE GLORY OF SPUDVANA


The last thing you need is a glut of starchy foods, Tetua. You're already starting to resemble a Dominix in profile.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-05-30 19:58:44 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Ah... The Federation... How do I think about it?

Well, I've always been Anti-Federation in my politics - but I have found that they can be dealt with. Moreover, as I've matured I have spent time in meditation and seen too many flaws on my own mountain to believe that I need to concern myself overmuch with theirs. I don't hate the Federation anymore. I hate the way that some of them interact with US, but that problem can be solved with explanation and reason and, in some cases, through unflinching and brutal violence. I think there will always be a case for using naked force to defend our assets and our people, but I really no longer support unfocused and random aggression against the Federation.

Tuulinen-haan, how would you reason with Admiral Noir, who claims that he wants peace, but then rams into Malkalen station?
Tuulinen-haan, how would you reason with peoples like Andreus Ixiris, who claims he wishes peace, but screams to kill all Caldari and insults instead of making fruitful conversation?
Tuulinen-haan, how would you reason with gallentean death squads, while they were killing Caldari citizens in Black Rise?
Tuulinen-haan, how would you reason with gallentean thugs, when they were defacing and destroying Caldari religious and historical sites, attacking civilians of Caldari origin?
Tuulinen-haan, how would you reason with that strike group, that attacked CN Shiigeru?
Or how would you reason with gallentean strike forces, who started attacking Caldari on Caldari Prime?..
Tell me, how?..

You can't reason with maniacs like them.

We must PROTECT the State against their aggression.
And for this to never happen again, the Federation must be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-05-30 19:59:41 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Luckily for me, your "no-one" extends only on a couple of traitors and your deluded self.

Actually, as this thread aptly demonstrates, my "no-one" extends to pretty much the entire IGS sans Scope Works. Lol

Poor deluded kid Roll

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Anslo
Scope Works
#57 - 2014-05-30 19:59:43 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Anslo wrote:
See? Everyone knows you'd do that. Besides, everyone knows I'm potato. I simply embraced it.

I have reached a state of spudvana, where the food is plentiful and the fucks given are 0.

EDIT: So while he goes and digs through logs, I'll just insert a spoiler about telling him about some cloaky weirdo ships in a certain wormhole of a certain group of a certain mini-Sansha Nation.

Because reasons.

BEHOLD THE GLORY OF SPUDVANA


The last thing you need is a glut of starchy foods, Tetua. You're already starting to resemble a Dominix in profile.


STOP SNEAKING CAMERA DRONES INTO MY QUARTERS

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#58 - 2014-05-30 20:02:28 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
We are professionals and not monsters like gallenteans.


The Caldari State are professionals and not monsters. You however seem to desire for the State to become monsters.

Are you the monster for defending your people against Minmatar attacks?
Why do you think then I want to make the State monsters for defending ourselves against gallentean aggression?


Let me boil it down for you.

I am a conservative Amarr that believes in the necessity of the Reclaiming, even through violent means. I believe that enemy nations, including the Republic and the Federation, must be conquered and their wholes absorbed. I believe in the enslavement of people for religious conversion. I believe in the use of orbital bombardment against soft targets as a symbolic weapon to break an enemy's infrastructure and spirit and demonstrate your might to a galaxy where everyone is looking for any sign of weakness they can exploit to defeat you.

What makes me different from you? What makes a professional and what makes a monster?

Because a professional understands that while some things might be necessary, that does not mean they are good. They are monstrous by their very nature. Sometimes necessary, but always monstrous. There must always be consideration as to whether the ends justify the means.

The people of the Federation, and the Republic for that matter, are, by and large, good people. They are not criminals. They might have ideals you do not like, but those ideals do not make them criminals. They are following the law in their own territories, and following the laws as set down by CONCORD which provides for the autonomy of all of its signatories, as agreed upon even by the Caldari State. And by that interstellar law, the Federation-State war is a war of Caldari aggression. It is not a war of Caldari defense, and you delude yourself by thinking so. A war of aggression is not necessarily a bad thing, but don't try and claim that you are the defending party when you are not. The State broke interstellar law to make a military bid for Caldari Prime, a bid that has been only partially successful. Does this goal, this end, justify the means and actions taken, for you? If it does, then so be it, but don't lie about the ends to make the methods seem more virtuous. The Caldari State are the aggressors in your war; take responsibility for what you have done. Do not pretend as if you have not committed any sins, recognize that you have and determine whether they were worth it and what you will do to repent for them. In a war of aggression, that repenting comes in the form of offering the people you have conquered a better world than the one they have been living in--that is your moral responsibility as the conquering nation. They become your subjects, your citizens, and must therefore be treated as members of your nation. Are you ready to do that, Ms. Kim? Are you ready to accept the Gallente as Caldari citizens? Because that is what it will mean if the Caldari State conquers the Federation. Upon victory, the enemy ceases being an enemy.

Make war on the Gallente Federation for as long as your nations are at war. But understand that you will not always be at war, and that you may even have to settle for peace. Be ready to accept that, because it will be determined not by you but instead by those to whom you have pledged service. Do your duty as it is commanded of you; don't try to twist or disregard what that duty is just to fulfill your own need for vengeance. That's what separates a professional from a monster.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#59 - 2014-05-30 20:05:59 UTC
I don't speak for any Caldari but myself, but I'm honestly amused that this thread is actually a thing. With that title too.

Katrina Oniseki

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-05-30 20:07:18 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Poor deluded kid

You keep saying this as if it will suddenly make the things you say true.

Take a good hard look at this thread. See anyone supporting you? Even the people from Scope Works aren't fighting for you, they're just showing up to mock random people they dislike.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.