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Why the Federation must be destroyed

Author
Sammie MacWinters
Gradient
Electus Matari
#21 - 2014-05-30 17:45:34 UTC
Shut up.
Anslo
Scope Works
#22 - 2014-05-30 17:46:33 UTC
Sammie MacWinters wrote:
Shut up.


No you.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-05-30 18:14:58 UTC
Laurentis Thiesant wrote:


Let us cut right to it, yes?
You believe that I am guilty of these crimes, that I have a direct criminal responsibility under the law worthy of such mistreatment and incarceration?

Prove it.

I am willing to submit myself for trial on the things you have mentioned above. I am willing to be judged by a fair and reasonable tribunal of the legitimate Caldari State under the Chief Executive Panel.

I am willing to do so on the very same day that you do too.

This is it Diana, will you go in, or will you fold at the thought of facing Lady Justice?

Oh, and err, if anyone has any expertise in State law and wants to represent me, I'll be happy to hear from you.

Your crimes are in supporting criminal regime and promoting anti-human ideals like democracy and individualism.
As for your direct involvement in death or genocide of Caldari people, I have no data available on this matter, but since you are a gallentean, these subjects should be investigated in detail as highly probable.

As the part of me appearing before CBT (since it is the correct judicial Caldari corporation, and not CEP), that would be simply stupid without actual charges against me. Would you like to accuse me in something maybe?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-05-30 18:18:01 UTC
Nuona wrote:
I don't have the raw figures in front of me, but wiping out a significant segment of the consumer base who buy State-produced commodities doesn't sound like it would be healthy for our people.

Our tech has high value all over the cluster, including the Federation. The State benefits not only financially, but strategically, through the legitimization of our ideals as they are 'baked-in' to the materiel that we supply.

Don't worry, citizen.
Destruction of the Federation doesn't mean wiping consumer base, just dismantling of political entity, that runs over these consumers.
However, if the said political entity will be using consumer base as shields, the said consumer base will be severely decimated during the war.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-05-30 18:23:31 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Doesn't matter, does it? After all, Sobaseki didn't found this State on the principle of destroying the Federation, simply on the principle of getting it to leave us alone.

We're about 55% of the way there, if you discount the Forever War. It's slow work, but we're making progress. In the meantime I don't really care what ideas the Federation was founded on, so long as they keep them to themselves. Not that they don't deserve a trial in the great Marketplace of Ideas, it's just that we already weighed them and found a number of them wanting.

Perhaps we should worry more about reforming and making our State more Caldari and worry less about changing other people to suit us - it's never really been a workable policy. Let's leave that to the Amarr.

Tuulinen-haan, the said Federation, as it has shown us six years ago, simply can't leave us alone.
We can either fight back, or stop fighting, surrender, and cease to exist.
So, there are generally two kind of Caldari peoples. First, who are actually Caldari, and who fight to stand as Caldari. And the second, who are not so Caldari, who stop fighting and would prefer to meet the fate of Mannars, whose even existence is not mentioned often, and who will be forgotten in thousands of years, becoming "just gallenteans".

Which type are you?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Avio Yaken
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#26 - 2014-05-30 18:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Avio Yaken
Sammie MacWinters wrote:
Shut up.


Truly, this reply has been crafted perfectly

such dedication
Such brilliance
Such wisdom


The meaning is beyond even the greatest of philosophers of our time, its is the riddle that we shall never solve as the cryptic meaning is something that baffles even the Jovians

is IGS even WORTHY? i am not, this masterpiece is brings tears to my eyes as its so perfectly written

EDIT: Whoops, quoted the 4 year old..my bad

(.___________________________________________.)/

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-05-30 18:26:27 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Every time Diana Kim opens her mouth, she further alienates the very people she's trying to proselytize to. Nothing anyone could say about her would ever be as damaging as her being allowed to express herself unhindered.

And any time Ixiris opens his mouth, nothing clever comes out.
Not a while ago Ixiris was even screaming to "Kill all Caldari"
Simple existence of people like him is the reason why the Federation must be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-05-30 18:34:53 UTC
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:
I hate reducing other people to mere stereotypes but I'm worried, Miss Kim, that you're falling squarely into "psychopathic planned-genocidal warmonger" descriptor. Your evidence of higher thought keeps getting swept under the rug when you let your fantasies of grandeur and mass murder overcome your senses. That being said, it is a statistic impossibility that every single Federation citizen is bad for the State.

Please quit while you're ahead. You don't have the support of your fellow Caldari outside of the crews you command and though I forgive you for being a lost, desperate woman it's getting to the point where seeing these posts is embarrassing.

Gallentean can only throw insults like that. Predictable.
Or maybe you will tell us, where I was proposing something something "psychopathic planned genocidal"?..
I doubt so, since it is another obvious gallentean lie about Caldari citizens.

Remember, kids: it is Gallenteans, who wants to exterminate Caldari, and it is gallenteans, who were killing Caldari citizens.
Look at the facts:

1. Gallenteans rammed Malkalen station.
2. Gallenteans were attacking Caldari peoples on Caldari Prime before the war has started
3. Gallenteans were defacing and destroying Caldari religious and historical sites on Caldari Prime
4. Gallenteans started military invasion on Caldari Prime disregarding civilian lives under threat of orbital bombardment
5. Gallente death squads in Black Rise.
6. Gallenteans destroyed our whole leviathan and dropped it on inhabited Caldari planet.

And what did Caldari do against Gallenteans?
Only regular warfare.

We are professionals and not monsters like gallenteans.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Wendrika
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-05-30 18:43:17 UTC
Miss Kim, you are starting to sound like a cultist. And cultists are bad! And mean! Don't be mean Miss Kim...

You shouldn't be so hateful. With all the energy you burn saying the Gallente are bad guys, you could have killed more Gallentean baddies (the ones that deserve it too) or spend some time teaching everyone about the advantages of being a Caldari citizen. Things like honor, self-sacrifice, fellowship and comitment to your allies. Things everyone would benefit from learning!

What honor is there in preaching about your enemies when just being honest to your ideals proves them wrong? That they are bad and should be ashamed of the way they behave.

You're my hero Miss Kim. So please, act like one and don't swoop down to the level of those you fight!
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-05-30 18:46:33 UTC
Wendrika wrote:
Miss Kim, you are starting to sound like a cultist. And cultists are bad! And mean! Don't be mean Miss Kim...

You shouldn't be so hateful. With all the energy you burn saying the Gallente are bad guys, you could have killed more Gallentean baddies (the ones that deserve it too) or spend some time teaching everyone about the advantages of being a Caldari citizen. Things like honor, self-sacrifice, fellowship and comitment to your allies. Things everyone would benefit from learning!

What honor is there in preaching about your enemies when just being honest to your ideals proves them wrong? That they are bad and should be ashamed of the way they behave.

You're my hero Miss Kim. So please, act like one and don't swoop down to the level of those you fight!

I am honored to hear this, Ms. Wendrika.
I am afraid you misunderstood me. I am not hateful towards them. All I want is to protect Caldari from them, and, as my mentor told me, offense is the best defense.
Since the Federation attacks us, we should attack back and destroy them.
This is the Caldari way.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-05-30 18:52:17 UTC
You can rant at me as much as you want, Kim. The fact is that you're all but a traitor to the Caldari people, idolizing a traitor to the Caldari people, advocating for a war which would most certainly destroy the State, all out of sheer, unmitigated spite.

The simple fact is that the Caldari State is currently moving in the direction of peace with the Federation - even the corporations who aren't standing behind Ishukone are certainly not seeking escalation. No-one in the State interested in following the example of Heth - he was denounced by the State, his position dissolved, his shares revoked, his positions replaced. He's not a hero of the Caldari State - he's a wanted criminal. No-one in the State is following him - in fact, the State is distributing bounties for the destruction of his supporters.

Since Heth was deposed, no State official in any position of power has expressed sentiments or intent anywhere close to your opinions or beliefs. No official capsuleer representative of the State has spoken in your defence. State loyalists denounce you every time you post on the IGS, and your only response is to label them traitors without any precedent or evidence other than your own opinions. You have no support base from which to draw. You have few friends, and few enough cordial acquaintances. You were banned from The Summit for repeatedly harranguing one of its moderators.

You habitualy ignore political and military realities because you cannot fit them into your worldview. The State does not have the military or political power to destroy the Federation, and never did at any point in its history. The Federation is not a criminal entity by any definition that actually has meaningful influence, nor was Operation Highlander either a criminal act nor an attack aimed at civilians. The State, under the misguided and deeply insane command of Heth, started this war with the Federation when he invaded its space - now that Heth was forcibly removed from his post, all signs point towards the State and the vast majority of its citizens being largely uninterested in continuing it.

You are living in a fantasy world where the State has the military and political clout to invade, occupy and subjugate a nation almost three times its size for long enough and with enough force to destroy both its military-industrial base and political infrastructure and prevent those things from reforming again. If you ever watched Games of State (you know, the Nugoeihuvi show? Run by Caldari, whose job it is to present news about the Caldari State to Caldari?), even the most unmitigatedly optimistic of professional State military analysists (that is, people whose job it is to make realistic and sane assessments of comparitive military strength) believe the State has just barely enough military strength to survive an all-out war with the Federation - not win, not bring to a stalemate, just to survive. For its part, however, the Federation probably wouldn't come out of a war with the State looking in any way healthy, and most of our citizens have no interest in war to begin with.

The Federation isn't going to go away any time soon, and every sane Caldari - whether they despise us (Vikarion), dislike us (Veikitamo Gesaakarin, Desiderya, etc.), distrust us (Dex Nederland et al) have no strong feelings about us (Jinari Otsito) or are cautiously friendly towards us (Pieter Tuulinen, Stitcher, etc.) - base their approach towards the Federation off this. You, however, are alone in a world of your own delusions.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#32 - 2014-05-30 18:58:29 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
We are professionals and not monsters like gallenteans.


The Caldari State are professionals and not monsters. You however seem to desire for the State to become monsters.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#33 - 2014-05-30 19:06:06 UTC
I was going to make some bad joke about not having strong feelings about the Federation but I couldn't be bothered. Well, that and I find I don't actually have anything to add to Ixiris' post. It covers all the bases rather nicely, from my perspective.

Just don't stop blowing each other up. I need a steady market, after all.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-05-30 19:06:22 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
You can rant at me as much as you want, Kim. The fact is that you're all but a traitor to the Caldari people, idolizing a traitor to the Caldari people, advocating for a war which would most certainly destroy the State, all out of sheer, unmitigated spite.

Ranting is what you do.
I have never committed any treason against Caldari and will never do. Besides, who would say about this, but not a kid like you, who was screaming in public channel to "Kill all Caldari".
While people like you exist, there can't be peace. Peoples like you are the reason, why the Federation must be destroyed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-05-30 19:08:05 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
We are professionals and not monsters like gallenteans.


The Caldari State are professionals and not monsters. You however seem to desire for the State to become monsters.

Are you the monster for defending your people against Minmatar attacks?
Why do you think then I want to make the State monsters for defending ourselves against gallentean aggression?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-05-30 19:15:37 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Ranting is what you do.

I've cited sources for my statements. You can almost never do the same for yours.

Diana Kim wrote:
I have never committed any treason against Caldari and will never do.

That's why I said "all but a traitor." You're still a vocal supporter of a legally-recognised traitor to the Caldari State (Tibus Heth, in case you're wondering), so for once, you're correct: that isn't technically treason. It's just advocacy of treason.

Diana Kim wrote:
While people like you exist, there can't be peace.

Despite the fact that I advocate peace between the Federation and the State and you advocate continued war. More Diana Kim doublethink.

Diana Kim wrote:
Peoples like you are the reason, why the Federation must be destroyed.

By whom? The State certainly isn't going to do it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#37 - 2014-05-30 19:21:28 UTC
Quote:

By whom? The State certainly isn't going to do it.


The pingiuns!

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2014-05-30 19:24:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Doesn't matter, does it? After all, Sobaseki didn't found this State on the principle of destroying the Federation, simply on the principle of getting it to leave us alone.

We're about 55% of the way there, if you discount the Forever War. It's slow work, but we're making progress. In the meantime I don't really care what ideas the Federation was founded on, so long as they keep them to themselves. Not that they don't deserve a trial in the great Marketplace of Ideas, it's just that we already weighed them and found a number of them wanting.

Perhaps we should worry more about reforming and making our State more Caldari and worry less about changing other people to suit us - it's never really been a workable policy. Let's leave that to the Amarr.

Tuulinen-haan, the said Federation, as it has shown us six years ago, simply can't leave us alone.
We can either fight back, or stop fighting, surrender, and cease to exist.
So, there are generally two kind of Caldari peoples. First, who are actually Caldari, and who fight to stand as Caldari. And the second, who are not so Caldari, who stop fighting and would prefer to meet the fate of Mannars, whose even existence is not mentioned often, and who will be forgotten in thousands of years, becoming "just gallenteans".

Which type are you?


I like to think my record speaks for itself. I may be on hiatus at present, but I have well over a thousand combat victories in the Warzone. I'll admit that doesn't make me an outstanding pilot but it does mean that I fought the good fight for a year or so and was pretty effective doing so.

It also means that I got to see first hand that whilst our efforts in Black RIse are absolutely vital for safeguarding the local State Citizens, there's no way we can actually win that war since our civilian government refuses to negotiate a peace or to expand the conflict to achieve a general victory. Without one of those two outcomes, we're always going to be of marginal value to the State, sadly.

Ah... The Federation... How do I think about it?

Well, I've always been Anti-Federation in my politics - but I have found that they can be dealt with. Moreover, as I've matured I have spent time in meditation and seen too many flaws on my own mountain to believe that I need to concern myself overmuch with theirs. I don't hate the Federation anymore. I hate the way that some of them interact with US, but that problem can be solved with explanation and reason and, in some cases, through unflinching and brutal violence. I think there will always be a case for using naked force to defend our assets and our people, but I really no longer support unfocused and random aggression against the Federation.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-05-30 19:25:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

Despite the fact that I advocate peace between the Federation and the State and you advocate continued war. More Diana Kim doublethink.

YOU advocate peace?
By screaming "Kill all Caldari"?

Oh, my sides!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#40 - 2014-05-30 19:28:00 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
By screaming "Kill all Caldari"?



[CITATION NEEDED]

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.