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Character Name Change when "buying" a toon

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Dave Stark
#101 - 2014-03-14 15:22:35 UTC
no, because this just amounts to a convoluted way of paying for a name change, which in itself is a terrible idea.
Anys Thes'Realin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-03-14 17:11:22 UTC
As long as the character's old name(s) is still easily traceable (via the various suggestions in the OP), and their employment history and other statistics remain intact, I don't see a problem with something like this.

My EVElopedia roleplaying profile, last updated February 23rd, 2014: http://tinyurl.com/nfazlch I support having more clothes for our characters!  http://tinyurl.com/kpafjh2
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2014-03-14 17:49:46 UTC
-1

The most obvious abuse here is that people will use this feature to launder names.

So you say slap a star on the end of their new name? What happens the second time they change their name - 2 stars? What about the 50th time? What about the people who actually put stars in their names at creation?

Make it cost plex? Some people have got the money, so it comes down as a perk for the rich.

Make it so that it can't be done on chars that have a bounty - bounties can be removed.

Add a tab showing alias history, what happens in 5 years when a significant number of people has undergone multiple name changes. Pain in the ars* to track down who is who.

What about an entire alliance changing their char names to a meaningless random barcode string eg "Ii1IIii" for the purpose of confusing target callers? How does being able to track their alias help with that?

And for what? You claim for a purely cosmetic reason, cause you don't really like the name you have bought. You are buying the SP because you can't be bothered to train one up from scratch, if you don't like the name, don't buy it, wait for another.

Even assuming this is used legitimately, why should someone buying a char get a perk denied to the regular player? I'm sure there are plenty of people regretting the name they initially choose.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2014-03-14 21:39:29 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I'm alright with a name change, even without an account swap, for a heavy price (2 Plex or so).

However, it needs the following caveats:

1.) It retains its old name too. Not only does the name change appear on the employment history tab (or more appropriately, on an alias tab), but every link to that toon is automatically updated with the toon's new identity. All player notes, all player contacts, etc, remain tied to that toon.

2.) If you link the old character and show info on it, it brings up info on your character, no matter what you are calling it.

3.) You cannot take the name of a previously used character.

The truth is, I do not care what you are called. I just care that your character's history follows your character... forever!
This

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-03-15 00:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Dussault
Major Trant wrote:
-1

The most obvious abuse here is that people will use this feature to launder names.

So you say slap a star on the end of their new name? What happens the second time they change their name - 2 stars? What about the 50th time? What about the people who actually put stars in their names at creation?

Make it cost plex? Some people have got the money, so it comes down as a perk for the rich.

Make it so that it can't be done on chars that have a bounty - bounties can be removed.

Add a tab showing alias history, what happens in 5 years when a significant number of people has undergone multiple name changes. Pain in the ars* to track down who is who.

What about an entire alliance changing their char names to a meaningless random barcode string eg "Ii1IIii" for the purpose of confusing target callers? How does being able to track their alias help with that?

And for what? You claim for a purely cosmetic reason, cause you don't really like the name you have bought. You are buying the SP because you can't be bothered to train one up from scratch, if you don't like the name, don't buy it, wait for another.

Even assuming this is used legitimately, why should someone buying a char get a perk denied to the regular player? I'm sure there are plenty of people regretting the name they initially choose.


you missed the point that a tab would be added for aliases or aliases would be shown in employment history... which in 2 seconds all your efforts for "laundering" your character would go poof.

since when people buy a toon and resell it every 6 months or year? i don't think it's a plausible hypothesis..

"What about an entire alliance changing their char names to a meaningless random barcode string eg "Ii1IIii" for the purpose of confusing target callers? How does being able to track their alias help with that?"
-that's just a stupid comment.. lmao

EDIT: as for the star.. it's just there to point out that the character had a name change.. not to provide a number. just one star is enough to provide that info. and i don't think you can add a star in your name when creating a character.. there's some rules to follow on that, i could be wrong tho, didn't try

EDIT2: i just tried, says name contains illegal characters
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#106 - 2014-03-15 01:21:49 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2014-03-15 12:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Major Trant
Renegade Dussault wrote:
Major Trant wrote:
-1

The most obvious abuse here is that people will use this feature to launder names.

So you say slap a star on the end of their new name? What happens the second time they change their name - 2 stars? What about the 50th time? What about the people who actually put stars in their names at creation?

Make it cost plex? Some people have got the money, so it comes down as a perk for the rich.

Make it so that it can't be done on chars that have a bounty - bounties can be removed.

Add a tab showing alias history, what happens in 5 years when a significant number of people has undergone multiple name changes. Pain in the ars* to track down who is who.

What about an entire alliance changing their char names to a meaningless random barcode string eg "Ii1IIii" for the purpose of confusing target callers? How does being able to track their alias help with that?

And for what? You claim for a purely cosmetic reason, cause you don't really like the name you have bought. You are buying the SP because you can't be bothered to train one up from scratch, if you don't like the name, don't buy it, wait for another.

Even assuming this is used legitimately, why should someone buying a char get a perk denied to the regular player? I'm sure there are plenty of people regretting the name they initially choose.


you missed the point that a tab would be added for aliases or aliases would be shown in employment history... which in 2 seconds all your efforts for "laundering" your character would go poof.

It is clear you haven't remotely thought about this, you asked for construction criticism, but your solution to that is just to rubbish anything that doesn't support the OP. - 2 seconds and all is revealed - get real, try recruiting for a corp, a 2003 player may have 50 entries in his employment history, it can take 30 minutes or more to work through it, it doesn't magically become obvious the second the window opens.

Renegade Dussault wrote:
since when people buy a toon and resell it every 6 months or year? i don't think it's a plausible hypothesis..

How can you say how people will use this? That is the whole point, work out if there are ways people can abuse this and sure enough if you can work it out they will, plus find a whole load more that you never thought of.

Renegade Dussault wrote:
"What about an entire alliance changing their char names to a meaningless random barcode string eg "Ii1IIii" for the purpose of confusing target callers? How does being able to track their alias help with that?"
-that's just a stupid comment.. lmao
You are an idiot to say that, this is so powerful, it absolutely definitely will be used. I can imagine it becoming a corp requirement. Clearly, you just can't think of a counter to this.

Renegade Dussault wrote:
EDIT: as for the star.. it's just there to point out that the character had a name change.. not to provide a number. just one star is enough to provide that info. and i don't think you can add a star in your name when creating a character.. there's some rules to follow on that, i could be wrong tho, didn't try

So we have 'one' star, someone changes their name, hops a few corps and changes their name again. So back to the corp recruiter, how is he going to know once he reaches the first name change that there are more? Bearing in mind the 2 second comment you mentioned above. Poof 2 seconds - yeah well thought out argument.

This leads to another negative, if one * is added to the end of these new names, how are you going to guard against the creative mind? For example, and this is just off the top of my head, names such as Fuc*, Cun*, Wanke*, Asshol* none of which offend the profanity filter
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-03-15 14:46:20 UTC
"It is clear you haven't remotely thought about this, you asked for construction criticism, but your solution to that is just to rubbish anything that doesn't support the OP. - 2 seconds and all is revealed - get real, try recruiting for a corp, a 2003 player may have 50 entries in his employment history, it can take 30 minutes or more to work through it, it doesn't magically become obvious the second the window opens. "

the corp recruiter doesn't have to check every single entry of an employment history, a quick look is enough, if he recognize a corp that gave him problem his eyes will recognize it almost instantly.. you are assuming it would give problems, when in fact we don't know cause it's never been done.. most likely it would add a huge 5 seconds to take a look at the alias list.. and again if his eyes doesn't recognize any name he wouldn't have to eternise himself on that list

"How can you say how people will use this? That is the whole point, work out if there are ways people can abuse this and sure enough if you can work it out they will, plus find a whole load more that you never thought of."

it was in form of a question to you.. i am not assuming anything.. it's just that now, atm, nobody does it.. you buy a toon because you need it.. nobody resell after 6 months or a year... it's just a fact. assuming that the list would be flooded because poeple would use the name change everytime they can is just stupid. it would cost too much money for no reason, since like i stated, a quick look at the alias history/name change would destroy those attempt at having a "clean name"

"You are an idiot to say that, this is so powerful, it absolutely definitely will be used. I can imagine it becoming a corp requirement. Clearly, you just can't think of a counter to this."

you are an idiot to assume something that you don't have a clue on. again there is restrictions on naming your toons created by CCP.. you need to not have any illegal characters in it for it to work.

"So we have 'one' star, someone changes their name, hops a few corps and changes their name again. So back to the corp recruiter, how is he going to know once he reaches the first name change that there are more? Bearing in mind the 2 second comment you mentioned above. Poof 2 seconds - yeah well thought out argument."

the timer of 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, is there for something... you can't ignore some of the "rules" we formulated in this 100+ thread in your advantage to create a problem which wouldn't be existent.. ALL of the name changes would be listed in the alias/ employment history list... it would be as simple as that.. the star after the name would be there to show that name change(s) has been applied to the toon. added to that the contact list showing the toon as blue gray or red according to the corp's/alliance contact list or even personal list.. well thought out argument indeed...

"This leads to another negative, if one * is added to the end of these new names, how are you going to guard against the creative mind? For example, and this is just off the top of my head, names such as Fuc*, Cun*, Wanke*, Asshol* none of which offend the profanity filter"

the star is added by CCP's system after a name change.. it doesn't mean that the rules of creating a toon's name would change..
Mag's
Azn Empire
#109 - 2014-03-15 19:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Renegade Dussault wrote:


why would you spend that much isk/plex/money to do that in the first place, when 2 seconds would be enough to throw away your attempt (by looking at the employment/ alias tab) to have a clean name on your toon??

it's a limitation in a sense that it's available to people that buy the toon. not that it would limit spying attempt, which is already a problem in the game.. well not really a problem, it's a sandbox world.

buying the time and effort of another player with an agreed amount of ISK.. that's it.. you talk about choices, well having the choice of changing the toon's name i just bought would be a great one.. again your points are not as important as you would like to think they are.
If they can they will, the cost of three Plex is nothing tbh. But as I said, your limitation is not a limitation at all. It's open to all, even if you are not selling your character to someone else.

You are skipping the time and effort and paying someone else for theirs. This will have down sides, some of which you can mitigate. One of those you can mitigate would be the name. You can chose to wait until one comes along you like, or buy one you don't.
But not waiting and buying one you don't like, isn't a justification for changing the game in such a drastic fashion.

Renegade Dussault wrote:
Barry Kring wrote:
Naah. You can just buy a character with a name you like.


useless space in the thread ;)
It has become fairly obvious you don't care about how the game would be affected by your terrible idea, as long as you get to change your name. Even when someone points out a way you can avoid your problem, without breaking the game.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-03-15 19:49:25 UTC
Mag's wrote:
It has become fairly obvious you don't care about how the game would be affected by you terrible idea, as long as you get to change your name. Even when someone points out a way you can avoid your problem, without breaking the game.

This

Stay in denial Renegade
Garren Thax
Mission Machinery
#111 - 2014-05-07 20:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Garren Thax
Mag's wrote:

You are skipping the time and effort and paying someone else for theirs. This will have down sides, some of which you can mitigate. One of those you can mitigate would be the name. You can chose to wait until one comes along you like, or buy one you don't. But not waiting and buying one you don't like, isn't a justification for changing the game in such a drastic fashion.


Yes, that is rather the point. Are you aware how long it can take to train a character? I started in 2003 originally but have since started over. Eve was a learning experience and remained so for many years afterwards and still is for the most part. I had useless science skills to play in the now discontinued T2 lottery just to try to get a T2 original BP. Now that I have settled on what I like and changes to the game have made it possible to finally do things the way I always envisioned it, I'd like to skip ahead a bit in starting over. I sold my original character a few years ago when my clone cost more than the ships I was flying (although they months later lowered clone costs). So I would like to skip ahead just a bit rather than retracing my steps for the next 300 days to get some of the skills I once had to those levels. I spent a 6 months watching the boards for just the right character. I always found the right skills, but never once did I find the sensible name that was even spelled properly. I finally got fed up and stopped looking.

Every problem has a solution. Because people are too lazy to look through a corp applicants history and see when they changed their name is not an actual problem. And just because the character may have a bad reputation, why should the person who bought the character from the previous owner have to bear that shame?

So lets play this out. You get a character that has a bad reputation. You apply to a corp and they say they don't want you because of your history. You link the character bazaar listing where the character was sold showing it changed ownership.

Lets play out with the name change. You get a character that has a bad reputation. You buy a plex or two for the name change. It adds a tab for an alias (or makes it part of employment history) when the name was changed so it is all easily tracked. Now a corp looks at that and sees it and rejects it. You then point to the auction in the bazaar where the character was sold which would correspond to the name change.

Now you may say this can be 'abused' but anything can be abused if you sit down and give it some thought. If you want to be extra paranoid about spying, anyone could easily sell the character to a friend, then later the friend sells it back to an alt character of the first owner to put it back to the same account and they can claim new ownership. And this is even without a name change feature. But paranoia is not a reason to not do something.

Mag's wrote:
It has become fairly obvious you don't care about how the game would be affected by your terrible idea, as long as you get to change your name. Even when someone points out a way you can avoid your problem, without breaking the game.


I have heard of many 'terrible ideas' over the years that are now actual features in the game. This one just gets dismissed as a 'terrible idea' without saying why and when workable solutions are pointed out, they are never acknowledged and gets labelled as a terrible idea without explanation. Use rational, reasonable arguments instead of blanket dismissal. It works better.
Tar'z
Doomheim
#112 - 2014-05-07 23:16:27 UTC
Those arguing for name changes have some decent ideas that do solve things like AWOX problems and hiding past identity. Saying the idea is not feasible because a player could use a star at the end of his name as a means of profanity is really not thinking straight. They could of course place the star some inches over, use a different symbol entirely, or not even use a symbol but simply list all past information in a new tab.

That is not to say however that this idea is sound. It is not.
- As mentioned, all alliances will be loaded up with alts (mains in many cases) with new, highly confusing names that are near impossible to target call.
- It's important to know who's on grid. It's important to know who's in local. It's not feasible to ask us to look into the corp/name history of each unknown player to insure he is/isn't a certain player.
Kate Blaze
True Power Capsuleers
#113 - 2014-05-08 06:53:17 UTC
Tar'z wrote:
Those arguing for name changes have some decent ideas that do solve things like AWOX problems and hiding past identity. Saying the idea is not feasible because a player could use a star at the end of his name as a means of profanity is really not thinking straight. They could of course place the star some inches over, use a different symbol entirely, or not even use a symbol but simply list all past information in a new tab.

That is not to say however that this idea is sound. It is not.
- As mentioned, all alliances will be loaded up with alts (mains in many cases) with new, highly confusing names that are near impossible to target call.
- It's important to know who's on grid. It's important to know who's in local. It's not feasible to ask us to look into the corp/name history of each unknown player to insure he is/isn't a certain player.

So what? FC should use target option if the name is confusing.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#114 - 2014-05-08 08:24:59 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Names have consequences.

Buying characters has consequences.



This.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#115 - 2014-05-08 08:46:04 UTC
No - not ever.

There is no way of having name changes in Eve without making it more complex to recognize someone who you have previously 'met' or interacted with.

You name holds your reputation. Selling/Buying a character should not wash away a reputation.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Kyle Tawate
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-05-30 16:33:33 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
No - not ever.

There is no way of having name changes in Eve without making it more complex to recognize someone who you have previously 'met' or interacted with.

You name holds your reputation. Selling/Buying a character should not wash away a reputation.

That is not fair on the buyer of the character. Why should we hold the reputation against someone who doesn't own the reputation.

Name changes are a fundemental feature for any sucessful MMO.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#117 - 2014-05-30 20:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Kyle Tawate wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
No - not ever.

There is no way of having name changes in Eve without making it more complex to recognize someone who you have previously 'met' or interacted with.

You name holds your reputation. Selling/Buying a character should not wash away a reputation.

That is not fair on the buyer of the character. Why should we hold the reputation against someone who doesn't own the reputation.
Why should we care that that reputation stays with the character? There is an old adage that fits here, 'Buyer beware'.

Not only that, but you are paying for someone's time and effort in creating that character. This should come with consequences. But as luck would have it, you can reduce them if you play smart. Just like an mmo game I know.

Oh and nice necro, I see we now have 4 threads on this topic in this section. Congrats.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#118 - 2014-05-30 20:24:30 UTC
i would only allow this if there was a tab called "formerly known as" on character info. you can change the name, but not the reputation or history.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#119 - 2014-05-30 23:14:29 UTC
Thread locked.

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