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Filthy profits off the T2 Blueprint scare...

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Author
Altalicious
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-05-23 10:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Altalicious
Couple of items (maybe more):

1. Will not sell my T2 BPOs, ever, period. Even with the proposed nerf/buff having a BPO means you never have to invent that item. This can be huge especially when it comes to ships. Ammo, on the other hand, not so much.

2. Most of my sales come from invented BPCs.

3. I invent way more BPCs than I can produce.

4. Markets are driven by -4/-4 bpc prices. This gives a huge advantage to the T2 BPOs. So using decrypters that improve your ME does nothing but help your profitability.'

5. It's not rocket surgery.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#22 - 2014-05-23 11:17:23 UTC
Altalicious wrote:

4. Markets are driven by -4/-4 bpc prices. This gives a huge advantage to the T2 BPOs. So using decrypters that improve your ME does nothing but help your profitability.
Are you aware that negative ME is going? Invented BPCs will supposedly have positive ME going forward, which reduces build cost in a massive way. The gap that T2 BPOs currently enjoy will not exist once the invention changes are brought in.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Altalicious
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-05-23 11:31:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Altalicious wrote:

4. Markets are driven by -4/-4 bpc prices. This gives a huge advantage to the T2 BPOs. So using decrypters that improve your ME does nothing but help your profitability.
Are you aware that negative ME is going? Invented BPCs will supposedly have positive ME going forward, which reduces build cost in a massive way. The gap that T2 BPOs currently enjoy will not exist once the invention changes are brought in.



Yep and I am still not too concerned. I doubt if people will lower their prices a significant amount just because the ME gets improved. I know how much these items cost to build and for some items this is not a significant improvement.

I read that 80% of invented T2 BPCs are for self use and those items never make it to market. But I also know a lot of others don't do the industrialist thing. So someone has to do it.
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#24 - 2014-05-24 08:13:06 UTC
What's going to happen is t2 bpos will be brought in line. Which will unload the full force of the market. Inflation will skyrocket to keep in line with plex. Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more.

Where's the firesales? You're all fools. You think they'll just remove something from the game? Where in 10 years, backs that theory.

Boom
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-05-24 21:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
HeXxploiT wrote:
Anyone taking advantage of blood in the water?

Anyone else playing the T2 BPO crazyness? It ain't real money folks. Big risks=big gains. Little risk=run of the mill daytrader.


Well, we filthy hobbitses have always made filthy profit off T2 BPO's, but naaaaaaaw... the big money is yet to come and will by no means be exclusive to T2 BPO's despite this ongoing preoccupation with them.

Unless you've owned one or two since the old days of the lottery, and giggled your ass off watching their value inflate beyond all expectation, well, T2 BPO's are, "soooooooooo yesterday". Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#26 - 2014-05-25 10:49:57 UTC
joyous the wrote:
Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more.
Pretty much all of the decent economic predictions for the changes to come estimate that the profit margins on T2 BPOs will halve once the invention ME changes roll on. I very much doubt their price will remain as high as it has, since most aim for a price of about 8-10 years profit to cover the cost. Half the margins mean twice the time to cover, so in turn the value should drop. It may lead to people pushing the asking prices up, but anyone that buys a T2 BPO that generates half the profit at double the cost is pretty insane, so sales will be few and far between at that price.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#27 - 2014-05-25 23:37:29 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
joyous the wrote:
Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more.
Pretty much all of the decent economic predictions for the changes to come estimate that the profit margins on T2 BPOs will halve once the invention ME changes roll on. I very much doubt their price will remain as high as it has, since most aim for a price of about 8-10 years profit to cover the cost. Half the margins mean twice the time to cover, so in turn the value should drop. It may lead to people pushing the asking prices up, but anyone that buys a T2 BPO that generates half the profit at double the cost is pretty insane, so sales will be few and far between at that price.

Yep. Although certain people (and their alts Blink) are trying to act as if nothing has changed, their prints are going to drop at least 50% in value from the looks of things... and that may only be the start Lol
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#28 - 2014-05-26 01:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lucas Kell wrote:
joyous the wrote:
Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more.
Pretty much all of the decent economic predictions for the changes to come estimate that the profit margins on T2 BPOs will halve once the invention ME changes roll on. I very much doubt their price will remain as high as it has, since most aim for a price of about 8-10 years profit to cover the cost. Half the margins mean twice the time to cover, so in turn the value should drop. It may lead to people pushing the asking prices up, but anyone that buys a T2 BPO that generates half the profit at double the cost is pretty insane, so sales will be few and far between at that price.


But here's the kicker. Inventors start making far greater money. With greater wealth, things unobtainable for the common poor i.e, the inventors, become obtainable. They become the new class. And the desire, as its always been. Is the ease of afk generation of isk. *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
has stated they have no immediate plans to remove them. CCP is not going to say definitively one way or another about anything so game changing simply because it's that touchy of a subject. That's as good as you're going to get. The facts at the end of the day is that t2 bpos will not be removed, nothing in this game has been deleted in 10 years. Poor people will have a greater share of the wealth. And goons have done nothing in their history but manipulate and lie. Wake up and realize that when you hear stories of someone getting scammed for 500m initiation fee, and you think to yourself "oh I'm smarter than that". Well?
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-05-26 02:00:17 UTC
Man I thought that post was going to be some pretty 101-level not-really-understanding-the-invention-market but it turned out to be a Dinsdale-esque work of art.

It's not going to be a huge change for Inventors. They're already primarily in a rat-race with each other outside of a few things that have small enough markets to be controlled by the limited output of a BPO. A BPO doesn't have much affect on a saturated market; it just generates a nice stream of low-effort income for the holder since his margins are much wider and he doesn't have to muck around with BPCs and decryptors and such. If Invention becomes more competitive with BPOs, it doesn't change much for the Inventor because his actual competition was already other Inventors. It just means the BPO guy suddenly doesn't make as much money.

On the other hand, a smart BPO holder would have already sold his stuff as soon as he realized he could have put a decade's worth of income in his pocket right now.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-05-26 04:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
joyous the wrote:
CCP has stated they have no immediate plans to remove them/

And I've never once - except in error - said they have plans to remove them, either.

*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

Voyager Arran wrote:
Man I thought that post was going to be some pretty 101-level not-really-understanding-the-invention-market but it turned out to be a Dinsdale-esque work of art.

It's not going to be a huge change for Inventors. They're already primarily in a rat-race with each other outside of a few things that have small enough markets to be controlled by the limited output of a BPO. A BPO doesn't have much affect on a saturated market; it just generates a nice stream of low-effort income for the holder since his margins are much wider and he doesn't have to muck around with BPCs and decryptors and such. If Invention becomes more competitive with BPOs, it doesn't change much for the Inventor because his actual competition was already other Inventors. It just means the BPO guy suddenly doesn't make as much money.

On the other hand, a smart BPO holder would have already sold his stuff as soon as he realized he could have put a decade's worth of income in his pocket right now.


Yeah, pretty much this. Make Invention yield positive or at worst 0 ME, adjust materials of the build to make up for the reduction in material consumption. Profit margin for an inventor doesn't change - if anything it might even drop a bit from more competition, depending on what other changes are made. The majority downside here falls almost entirely on BPO owners.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#31 - 2014-05-28 00:26:59 UTC
Where's the panic then? I've said all I could. I've always been a fighter for the poor man. You heed my advice or you don't. Simple as that, I've stated the facts. Nothing in eve depreciates. Imagine the market and imagine google earth, the +/-, hit the - and look a bit bigger. The context. At the end of the day your dealing with years, decades, multiple decades. That is what EVE is. And that is the notion being misinterpreted by the incorrect set of lenses. You can join us, or don't. We don't care. All we know, is we'll be there.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#32 - 2014-05-28 05:11:09 UTC
joyous the wrote:
Nothing in eve depreciates.

probably the funniest thing i've read today
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#33 - 2014-05-28 07:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
joyous the wrote:
But here's the kicker. Inventors start making far greater money. With greater wealth, things unobtainable for the common poor i.e, the inventors, become obtainable. They become the new class. And the desire, as its always been. Is the ease of afk generation of isk. *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal..
lol, a lot of people don't consider a T2 BPO to be end game industry. It's a terrible investment with an absolutely awful ROI, and that keeps getting worse as the price gets pushed up while the market price of the product doesn't. theres no way that inventors are going to be saying "Well I've made a heap of profit, lets spend 20 years of BPO profit on a BPO". That's just wishful thinking.

joyous the wrote:
Look at the facts.
Yes, look at the facts. CCP stated the value "will go down". CCP stated that there will be a "transitional plan" not just a "take them away and say screw you" (transitional plan to... what? The context suggest removal). CCP also stated there are no plans to remove them, then later revised that to no "immediate" plans (why the change if they will never be removed). Then look at the fact that the gap between BPOs and invention is being considerably reduced. Lets face it, if you look at the facts, they suggest that T2 BPOs have a limited shelf life and will lose a lot of value. The only thing going against that is people saying "nope!" with no actual evidence to support it. Look at yourself, your only "evidence" is that goons are saying it will go down, lol.

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

joyous the wrote:
The facts at the end of the day is that t2 bpos will not be removed, nothing in this game has been deleted in 10 years.
Well that in itself is not a fact, loads of things have been removed and more things will be. At the end of the day when they build new mechanics, older ones need to go. They can't just keep every old idea around for eternity. You might get to keep the item to collect, but the function it has will not exist forever.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-05-28 22:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Hint:

They could entirely delete T2 BPOs from the game right now and it would have a minimal effect on most T2 markets.

They could also make items built from T2 BPOs cost no materials at all and achieve the same result.


Invention changes are not going to be the birth of a merchant class, *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#35 - 2014-05-29 21:23:44 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.



ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#36 - 2014-05-30 05:01:15 UTC
You know, the forums are for discussion, and what we were having in this thread is exactly what is intended. A dialogue. You stepping in with your **** waving wasn't needed.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#37 - 2014-05-30 05:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Money Makin Mitch
joyous the wrote:
You know, the forums are for discussion, and what we were having in this thread is exactly what is intended. A dialogue. You stepping in with your **** waving wasn't needed.

I'm starting to wonder if he might have an agenda and might be abusing his power because he keeps stepping into every single ******* T2 BPO thread over multiple sub-forums to censor, snip, close, or move. It has seriously become a pattern. He has even done arbitrary deletion of bids in sale threads. Getting ready to petition this **** for investigation if it continues.
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#38 - 2014-05-30 06:33:03 UTC
o know icee
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#39 - 2014-05-30 07:26:31 UTC
Aww and after Otti got owned and everything. I was waiting for a response on that one. At least eve-search never forgets. Thanks again Chribba.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-05-30 15:32:05 UTC
Direct from CCP Greyscale

- T2 BPO proxy-nerf. The changes are not explicitly targeted at T2 BPOs, but we're also not currently minded to do anything to prop up the value of T2 BPOs given that we're contemplating significant changes to them in the future anyway.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

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