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Newb PVP safety suggestion

Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-04 19:02:08 UTC
I have seen alot of suggestions for ways to make new players "Safe" from PVP. Usually this amounts to making newb systems safe zones or making 1.0 space free from PVP. If there is ever a "safe" system then any wardecced high sec corp will just bottle up in these systems for the duration and pirates would headquarter there to avoid the repercussions of their misdeeds. The problem that exists that does detract from the game with respect to PVP is the high sec ganking of brand new players. Eve is famous for having a "learning cliff" vice a "learning curve". If your first experiance in eve is to get ganked several times then you will get the impression that that is what the game is going to be like. Most of us realize that the PVP experiance in eve is one of the best in the whole MMO industry. However, a player that is still learning which buttons do what isn't really experiencing true eve pvp. What is needed is a way for new players to learn the system without being molested but not change any of the games main mechanics.
I believe that the way to accomplish this is to give brand new players, maybe only the first one on the account, an ingame implant. This implant would be called something along the lines of "the CONCORD Probationary Capsuleer Monitor". It would function to prevent the capsuleer from firing on other players and prevent other players from firing on them. It might also provide bonuses similar to the cerebral accelerator. Other things it does is limit the character in the same way as having a trial account and limit the character to systems of 0.9 and 1.0. This would allow the learning cliff to become something more of a learning curve. The implant would not be removable like a normal implant until you completed either of 2 agent missions. One would be the fast way that would be the "pirate" mission tutorial that would teach you to avoid the wrath of CONCORD. The other would be a longer one that goes through the majority of the combat tutorials so the player has been presented how to play and know something about how to play. The point is to avoid the situation where the new player gets ganked 6 times in the first hour and never activates their account. This would allow for new players to learn the buttons and rules without altering the fundamentals of eve.
Vio Geraci
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-11-04 19:41:24 UTC
You start with "most ideas suggested by players are dumb" and finish with it also (albeit in a different sense).
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-04 20:05:12 UTC
Vio Geraci wrote:
You start with "most ideas suggested by players are dumb" and finish with it also (albeit in a different sense).

I, by no means, want to imply that. Ideas evolve and improve over time, Darwin's ideas about evolution were deeply flawed and we have come to understand a great deal about evolution that he didn't understand. That doesn't detract from his genius. The same is here true, my ideas about gameplay are certainly not genius but they do rest on the shoulders of other players. Please don't project any insult you may percieve on to me, please.
Wardecs Without Borders
#4 - 2011-11-04 20:33:14 UTC
I have a better idea: improve the tutorials so that new players understand PVP mechanics better when they start playing. Specifically, aggression and wars aren't explained at all to noobs, they're left to figure all that out for themselves.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Molden Heath Angels
#5 - 2011-11-05 10:09:55 UTC
Babysitting so called newbies is making this game worse. They either learn pvp or not ever. It's not like pvp losses in eve matter much with current economy. You just must get your ship destroyed few times to get a clue.

In general I haven't seen any mmo where making game easier for newbies would have made it any better, actually in many cases it has made game less interesting for veterans and newbies both.

Instanced pvp and safe carebearing zones work fine until people have played to some extent they've reached most goals they want to go for. After that people lose interest when it comes repetitive and leave to play something else. I.e. many people play "newbie mode" their whole time in eve and go do something else after that when they notice how little pve content there is. To be serious eve has very little pve content it's mostly multiple instances of same "dungeons" you just find in randomly different named solar system. In case of anomalies and asteroid belts they're even in same solar system.

Relying on that helping these "newbie mode" players to play doesn't really do any good unless there's constant stream of new pve content available and even then they live in separated instanced world from people who prefer more pvp style approach and when this gap between pve and pvp becomes greater game is suddenly much more boring bullshit and both pve and pvp players leave.

just my 2 cents.

Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-11-05 16:43:37 UTC
So you're suggesting we give an implant making a character totally invulnerable, that can't be removed until you do a mission? So if they don't do that mission, they could mine/mission in .9/1.0 space forever? Hell no.
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-06 05:19:24 UTC
I lost some of the text when my browser crashed when writing the OP. One of the other things that would make the item work is that it would have to have a time limit, I would think 7 days or so.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#8 - 2011-11-06 05:32:59 UTC
Karaburan wrote:
I lost some of the text when my browser crashed when writing the OP. One of the other things that would make the item work is that it would have to have a time limit, I would think 7 days or so.

Bots paradise man. I agree on just improving the Tutorials. One of the most important to be included (imo) would be a can flipping tutorial and how aggression works in HighSec. This however is mostly because I feel bad when I see newer players lose their shiny new Vexor or something, we've all been there.

With that said however, losing ships that way does teach players the value of erring on the side of caution and realizing that no part of EVE is truly safe.
PFU Consortium
#9 - 2011-11-06 06:42:39 UTC
Not supported; any sort of PVP immunity should not interact with the rest of the game.

I would, on the other hand, support 'simulation' systems that exist in 'virtual space', which are basically just single-player instances that contain nothing but the first tutorial missions, and have no items or resources which can be removed from them (save the paltry handful of ISK that Aura gives you for completing said tutorials). Once new players have learned the basic controls and have some idea of what's going on, then they can leave the simulation and get into the real game... and that's about as much coddling as Eve needs.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#10 - 2011-11-07 03:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephiroth Clone VII
Dead end newbie systems (each race) that only chars a month old can enter? With just training agents that seeds all the rookie modules for 100 isk. Also all the basic skill books, exuding all of the ones that trial accounts can't use.

Concord or whoever runs the gates in the system, so anyone else trying gets a barred from jumping in message.

People are barred from harassing noobs anyway, so its not like chars supposed to do it anyway. That way, any place a player can fly to they are free to shoot without account consequence (isk, and clone yes but no banhammer).

Have it part of tutorial agents mission warning about aggression mechanics and that the universe is dangerous. If they try to jump out give one warning about the dangers of the outside world.

Also warning about shooting other players in the safe zone, that it is not permitted and they need to leave before doing it. Doing it, pod is relocated out of system by concord (and barred re-entry).

Being a dead end system means it won't affect any trade routs, and gank camps on them.

Also could be based by the age of the account as well to be more accurate to weed out 'pros' from getting in noob zone.

In addition to the noob zone though have trainer agents located in each empire in a non noob exclusive system (the ones we have currently), just in case someone wants to refresh or get the new tutorial experience.

Also after char is a month old, all possessions in said system are relocated to the 'not safe' tutorial zone. That mechanic prevents any long term hulk miners from using the 'safe' zone for infinite safe mining, a person can hypothetically train their way up but that would only work for a limited time and then they would no longer be useful for that.

A additional measure of preventing abuse of the noobzone is that leaving is a one way trip.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#11 - 2011-11-08 09:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
I am a new player and to be honest any thought about some kind of babysitting mechanism makes me wanna puke. I joined Eve exactly because it is advertised as no mercy no flower power bullshit kind of game.

If I wanted to be separated from pvp I would play something that has that separation implemented. But problem with those games is they are too cute too colorful too candyass for me. I am a grown man, 33 years old and I know that it sounds silly but I won't pay for subscription to be able to pickup flowers and kill fairies on meadows of some Neverland. Spaceships and facing almost real life level of scummness (is that even a word? lol) appeals more to me.

Newbies are secure enough in starting hisec sectors and tutorial missions are easy and safe enough. Apart from that, well... it a cold cold world of New Eden, you have to fight for survival. Why you want to spoil the fun?

At least that is my newbie point of view on Eve.

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Quinnie Huang
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-10 06:10:50 UTC
My mantra is that people learn faster from their mistakes. It'll be a shame to deny newbies of that experience. It's better for a new player to find out quickly if the game is for him/her during the first 14/21 days before they start paying anything, then for them to discover too late and rage quit after spending money on this game. Any kind of pvp protection plan for newbs will have that negative effect.

Just my 2 ISK.
#13 - 2011-12-02 13:19:48 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I have a better idea: improve the tutorials so that new players understand PVP mechanics better when they start playing. Specifically, aggression and wars aren't explained at all to noobs, they're left to figure all that out for themselves.


God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2011-12-02 15:05:15 UTC
if you don't want to get ganked go mine on the test server outside of the testing system

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Krios Ahzek
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-12-02 15:35:17 UTC
How does a newbie get ganked six times during his first day?

I mined in my first weeks. I also did the entire newbie epic arc in an awesomely ****-infested system

I have never been ganked, except 200 times a day by the forums.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
#16 - 2011-12-03 18:12:48 UTC
Newb safe suggestions. Dont use jetcans Use GSC (Giant Secure Containers.) DONT Afk. and dont trust anyone but yourself
Xien Anh
Xezan Federation
#17 - 2011-12-04 19:23:23 UTC
I been a noob for 3 months now. When I got ganked, I darned well deserved it.

That said... Anyone got a Harbinger to spare? Cry

Only a ginger can call a ginger a ginger!