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Serious concerns about the renter isk injection in the eve economy?

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-05-28 02:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Mag's wrote:
Trin Javidan wrote:
botlord agreements
Ahh, so you actually wish to talk about bots and their role in this?

"botlord" is what lazy people say in reference to the B0TLRD Accord. It has nothing to do with botting - B0T is the Brothers of Tangra alliance, PL's renters.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#42 - 2014-05-28 05:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
You're in brilliant form today Dinsdale.

EDIT: Who deleted Dinsdale's post?
Josef Djugashvilis
#43 - 2014-05-28 07:46:33 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:
Mag's wrote:
ISK injection? You mean bounties?


yes and easy obtainable plex loot


Check out some of the posts by La Nariz (who provides impartial fact based evidence) and Baltec 1, then you will feel assured that the income to be had from bounties etc is so low that one feels sorry for the poor renters.

Smile

This is not a signature.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#44 - 2014-05-28 09:02:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Trin Javidan wrote:
botlord agreements
Ahh, so you actually wish to talk about bots and their role in this?

"botlord" is what lazy people say in reference to the B0TLRD Accord. It has nothing to do with botting - B0T is the Brothers of Tangra alliance, PL's renters.
Thanks for clearing that up. It was an obvious (although wrong) conclusion, from the little information given.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-05-28 09:33:22 UTC
Hey everyone I have concerns about this thing that I know nothing about & magic money it's a huge problem.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#46 - 2014-05-28 14:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Trin Javidan
Vincent Athena wrote:
Because there are more people out there due to the ability to rent than there would be if renting was not possible. Right now there are renters AND alliance members. If renting were impossible, there would just be alliance members. Result: More people slurping up the big bounties.
But I see no way to make renting impossible, so we have what we have.


John Ending wrote:
It means a lot of Titans.


Tippia wrote:
That assumes that they wouldn't make the same kind of ISK elsewhere and that the alliances wouldn't compensate for their income loss by generating more ISK themselves.


SurrenderMonkey wrote:
What an odd thing to say - as if renting only exists because there isn't a technical way to render it impossible, and if only there were such a mechanism, it would be done away with as something undesirable. Roll


Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Quick actual figures. Based on CCP's figures for 2012-2013 Null sec ratting/anoms injected somewhere in the region of 25-30 Trillion isk a month which is about 50% of isk injected into the economy.


Thanks for all the replies! I think i begin to understand it.

Could i draw the following conclusings from the quote's above?
-In the past is was mainly only Alliance members that used up space, now it is Alliance members AND renters. And looking at dotlan (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances) the renter alliances combined exist out of 22,000 characters, which is equal or slighly more than all the sov owner alliances combined. Where some renter alliances are 4*size of sov owner Alliance.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

If renter & sov corp are the same size or more, why are renters not just take it or how are sov holders manage to capture / maintain the space? Is it because of titans? like what John Ending sais? (I am sorry i am a noob)

And where is isk actualy spend on, by those 2 groups? What effects will that have? Could i draw the conclusion that eve is just scaling up and that titans are a common thing now? Would it be something to have that can doomsday a titan?
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-05-28 14:45:37 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:


Thanks for all the replies! I think i begin to understand it.

Could i draw the following conclusings from the quote's above?
-In the past is was mainly only Alliance members that used up space, now it is Alliance members AND renters. And looking at dotlan (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances) the renter alliances combined exist out of 22,000 characters, which is equal or slighly more than all the sov owner alliances combined. Where some renter alliances are 4*size of sov owner Alliance.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

If renter & sov corp are the same size or more, why are renters not just take it or how are sov holders manage to capture / maintain the space? Is it because of titans? like what John Ending sais? (I am sorry i am a noob)

And where is isk actualy spend on, by those 2 groups? What effects will that have? Could i draw the conclusion that eve is just scaling up and that titans are a common thing now? Would it be something to have that can doomsday a titan?


0.0 also used to be a lot bigger than it currently is, figuratively speaking.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-05-28 15:00:14 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:

-In the past is was mainly only Alliance members that used up space, now it is Alliance members AND renters.


Renting has been a "thing" for as long as I can remember. It's not new. Pearl-clutching histrionics over renters is kind of new, though.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#49 - 2014-05-28 15:03:34 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Hey everyone I have concerns about this thing that I know nothing about & magic money it's a huge problem.


Because Goons.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#50 - 2014-05-28 15:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
Trin Javidan wrote:

Could i draw the following conclusings from the quote's above?
-In the past is was mainly only Alliance members that used up space, now it is Alliance members AND renters. And looking at dotlan (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances) the renter alliances combined exist out of 22,000 characters, which is equal or slighly more than all the sov owner alliances combined. Where some renter alliances are 4*size of sov owner Alliance.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

If renter & sov corp are the same size or more, why are renters not just take it or how are sov holders manage to capture / maintain the space? Is it because of titans? like what John Ending sais? (I am sorry i am a noob)

And where is isk actualy spend on, by those 2 groups? What effects will that have? Could i draw the conclusion that eve is just scaling up and that titans are a common thing now? Would it be something to have that can doomsday a titan?


Apparently, Shadow of Death and Solar Wing were pretty big renter alliances. I just do not remember how big they were compared to what we see today. But like it was said above, renters have existed in Eve for a very long time! Its not a new things but...it is probably bigger then what it was before.

And if renters would try to take the sov from their "owners"....I think it would end pretty badly for them. The owners would not even need Titans!
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#51 - 2014-05-28 22:06:26 UTC
Removed a rumor mongering post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Claude Shutz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-05-29 16:37:22 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Trin Javidan wrote:

Could i draw the following conclusings from the quote's above?
-In the past is was mainly only Alliance members that used up space, now it is Alliance members AND renters. And looking at dotlan (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances) the renter alliances combined exist out of 22,000 characters, which is equal or slighly more than all the sov owner alliances combined. Where some renter alliances are 4*size of sov owner Alliance.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

If renter & sov corp are the same size or more, why are renters not just take it or how are sov holders manage to capture / maintain the space? Is it because of titans? like what John Ending sais? (I am sorry i am a noob)

And where is isk actualy spend on, by those 2 groups? What effects will that have? Could i draw the conclusion that eve is just scaling up and that titans are a common thing now? Would it be something to have that can doomsday a titan?


Apparently, Shadow of Death and Solar Wing were pretty big renter alliances. I just do not remember how big they were compared to what we see today. But like it was said above, renters have existed in Eve for a very long time! Its not a new things but...it is probably bigger then what it was before.

And if renters would try to take the sov from their "owners"....I think it would end pretty badly for them. The owners would not even need Titans!


If renters were motivated and organized enough to take sov from their landlords they wouldn't be renters in the first place (for the most part).
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#53 - 2014-05-29 16:47:26 UTC
If it bothers you that much, fit up a cloaked ship and go spend some time cutting down their income.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2014-05-29 16:54:56 UTC
This topic is so old, it is allowed to drink in the Us.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Magnus Cortex
Ginger Industrial Solutions
#55 - 2014-05-29 17:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Magnus Cortex
Trin Javidan wrote:
Could i draw the following conclusings from the quote's above?
-In the past is was mainly only Alliance members that used up space, now it is Alliance members AND renters. And looking at dotlan (http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliances) the renter alliances combined exist out of 22,000 characters, which is equal or slighly more than all the sov owner alliances combined. Where some renter alliances are 4*size of sov owner Alliance.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

If renter & sov corp are the same size or more, why are renters not just take it or how are sov holders manage to capture / maintain the space? Is it because of titans? like what John Ending sais? (I am sorry i am a noob)

And where is isk actualy spend on, by those 2 groups? What effects will that have? Could i draw the conclusion that eve is just scaling up and that titans are a common thing now? Would it be something to have that can doomsday a titan?


Renting has been a thing for many years but the recent explosion in growth is due to the Technetium nerf. Alliances like PL could fund themselves indefinitely by holding a number of these high value moons and didnt bother with sov anywhere at all.

The R64 buff never panned out to the same levels as Technetium and they are much more scattered to begin with so alliances cannot fund themselves solely off of moons like they used to during the Tech days.

Sov in its current form is heavily skewed to the defender and essentially- that big 'ol block of Brothers of Tangra and Northern Associates space (the whole right side of the map) is held by Archons and Supercaps. With an Archon carrier group they can cross all of that space in minutes and defend any timer. If anything that can threaten the Archons come along the Supers show up.

Should such a small group of people be able to control that much space for very little effort? That is a design and balance question only CCP can answer.

The CFC on the other hand prefers to use subcapital ships and more people to defend and maintain their space with less of a reliance on capitals. And actively utilizes and lives in their regions more than others. The isk on both sides goes for a number of things like ship replacement programs, with the CFC being more focused on individuals and subcapitals and the other side being more focused on titans and supers and jump fuel.

Titans are a focus because the one certain thing everyone learned from the major clashes of The Hallowen War is that capital guns (dreadnoughts) do not cycle reliably in 10% tidi and therefore cannot be used to counter large capital groups (archons) past a certain threshold.

The only thing that works reliably and swings the balance when the mother of all cap fights happens is titan doomsdays.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#56 - 2014-05-29 17:15:00 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:
Hi,

I am wondering what the 0.0 renter status and the isk injection means for the eve economy. Does someone know this?


Why would this be a concern?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-05-29 17:49:39 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If it bothers you that much, fit up a cloaked ship and go spend some time cutting down their income.


Damn right, they'd be hiding in NPC null and taking out "disruptive and highly destructive" inty gangs daily to destroy all of sov-holding scum!

Wait, what?
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#58 - 2014-05-29 19:13:32 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:
[If all the supermarkets would hand out cookies for free and other food still cost $$$, what effect would it have on the eating paterns of the supermarket customers?



Wut?

They would probably get some cookies, but still buy what they needed... except for cookies. Unless they don't like the cookies the supermarket is giving away, since the supermarket is profit based and is probably giving away stale or unpopular overstock items. In which case, the free cookie program will not change the dietary patterns of many humans except the ones who cannot control themselves.

Again, how is this related to your question?

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
JITAALT808
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-05-29 19:31:22 UTC
There is an assumption that alliance members and renters are always separate people/groups. This isn't necessarily true. There are many "renter" corps that are run by alliance alts who are running businesses to rake in taxes from what amounts to sub-renters. There are also many "renter" corps that aren't really renters, they are hidden cap producers/material suppliers taking advantage of the protection of the renter accords.

Also, many of the FW alts are alliance alts grinding ISK for the titans produced by those hidden producers. The Russians are all over the FW grind right now.
Vivec Septim
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-05-29 20:30:08 UTC
Renting can suck when your opponent loves to stealth bomber - camp the area and titans are bridging into your territories. lol

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.