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What will happen if Scout Drones V is half-way trained before Kronos?

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Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2014-05-29 07:55:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It doesn't make any sense because that would violate their dictum of "if you can use it now, you can use it after".

It makes sense because Drone Avionics is the skill that control drone control range. It therefore also unlocks modules that control drone control range. Compare Drone Navigation → DNC and Drone Sharpshooting → Omnilink.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-05-29 07:57:44 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It doesn't make any sense because that would violate their dictum of "if you can use it now, you can use it after".

It makes sense because Drone Avionics is the skill that control drone control range. It therefore also unlocks modules that control drone control range. Compare Drone Navigation → DNC and Drone Sharpshooting → Omnilink.

You're ignoring the larger point.

If someone doesn't have Scout Drone Operation 5 but they do have Combat Drone Operation 5, come June 3rd they'll discover they won't be able to use T2 DLAs anymore.

The simple solution for this would be to give everyone the level of Drone Avionics that they have in either SDO or CDO, whichever is higher. But they're not doing that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tronity Neutronux
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2014-05-29 07:59:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Drone Avionics controls bonuses and modules that have to do with drone control range.


If I don't need that skill for Tech II light and medium drones at V I don't understand why somebody should get it automatically at V via the update from the Scout Drone skill? Anyway I started training Scout Drones to V on my toon now ... sounds like I could not go wrong with that. I'm still unsure what to do on my main (and I'm not alone with that) regarding canceling Combat Drones skill.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2014-05-29 08:02:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're still ignoring the larger point.
No. I simply consider it utterly minute.

Quote:
If someone doesn't have Scout Drone Operation 5 but they do have Combat Drone Operation 5, come June 3rd they'll discover they won't be able to use T2 DLAs anymore.
That's ok. They'll get fast-tracked to T2 drones instead, which is far more valuable. Blink
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2014-05-29 08:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tronity Neutronux wrote:
If I don't need that skill for Tech II light and medium drones at V I don't understand why somebody should get it automatically at V via the update from the Scout Drone skill?
Because it's the skill you've trained to V.

If you have trained SDO V, you have unlocked:
• T2 light drones.
• T2 medium drones.
• A 25km drone control range.

They don't want you to lose any of those, so you're being given:
• The ability to use T2 light drones (LDO V).
• The ability to use T2 medium drones (MDO V).
• A 25km drone control range (DAv V).

If you have trained CDO V, you have unlocked:
• +25% damage to light drones.
• +25% damage to medium drones.

They don't want you to lose those bonuses either, so you're being given:
• +25% damage to light drones (LDO V).
• +25% damage to medium drones (MDO V).


Basically, the entire change is to fix the entirely illogical cross-skill bonusing and unlocking that the current drone skills offer. Right now, the drone skills are such that, if the turret skills worked the same, you would have to train Long-range Targeting V in order to use T2 light blaster — the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. All of that silliness is being removed: bonusing skills and unlocking skills become one and the same.
Tronity Neutronux
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2014-05-29 08:21:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Tronity Neutronux wrote:
If I don't need that skill for Tech II light and medium drones at V I don't understand why somebody should get it automatically at V via the update from the Scout Drone skill?
Because it's the skill you've trained to V.

If you have trained SDO V, you have unlocked:
• T2 light drones.
• T2 medium drones.
• A 25km drone control range.

They don't want you to lose any of those, so you're being given:
• The ability to use T2 light drones (LDO V).
• The ability to use T2 medium drones (MDO V).
• A 25km drone control range (DAv V).

If you have trained CDO V, you have unlocked:
• +25% damage to light drones.
• +25% damage to medium drones.

They don't want you to lose those bonuses either, so you're being given:
• +25% damage to light drones (LDO V).
• +25% damage to medium drones (MDO V).


Basically, the entire change is to fix the entirely illogical cross-skill bonusing and unlocking that the current drone skills offer. Right now, the drone skills are such that, if the turret skills worked the same, you would have to train Long-range Targeting V in order to use T2 light blaster — the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. All of that silliness is being removed: bonusing skills and unlocking skills become one and the same.


The point with the 25km drone range makes sense in my opinion, thanks. So I would stop skilling Combat Drones to V on my main now and I'm trying to compensate a bit of that waste of that double-skilltime via my toon.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-05-29 08:23:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If someone doesn't have Scout Drone Operation 5 but they do have Combat Drone Operation 5, come June 3rd they'll discover they won't be able to use T2 DLAs anymore.
That's ok. They'll get fast-tracked to T2 drones instead, which is far more valuable. Blink


To be fair though, thats not really ok. Sure, it is probably the best and most sensible way to shake things out, I'm not denying that, but it does violate the whole ethos of how every other skill change has been made (and in fact, why the who "get the highest of either skill" is being done with the drone skills).

As I say, I'm sure the CCP guys have looked at things, and this is the the way things will work out the best, but it does seem a massive omission causing people to lose use of DLA2's, especially when you consider that it is governed by the more expensive of the two current skills, so if anything, having the higher level in that one shouldn't screw you compared to having the higher level in the cheaper one. Of course, anyone with any sense will be maxing SDO on every character to maximise the benefits anyway, but it does leave a crack in the system that someone is bound to fall through.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-05-29 08:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You're still ignoring the larger point.
No. I simply consider it utterly minute.

Quote:
If someone doesn't have Scout Drone Operation 5 but they do have Combat Drone Operation 5, come June 3rd they'll discover they won't be able to use T2 DLAs anymore.
That's ok. They'll get fast-tracked to T2 drones instead, which is far more valuable. Blink

i think james is correct. it doesn't matter what value you place on dla or t2 drones, tip, begging your pardon :P, if you can use it today, you should be able to use it tomorrow

e: what i meant to say but didn't is that i don't like the exception to the policy no matter the size
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2014-05-29 08:29:55 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Of course, anyone with any sense will be maxing SDO on every character to maximise the benefits anyway, but it does leave a crack in the system that someone is bound to fall through.

I'm guessing that anyone who wants maximum range will have gone for the (far cheaper and universally more useful) SDO V than the single-purpose and limited-use DLA II, so the amount of people falling through that crack should be vanishingly small.

There is actually another crack as well: people will lose their sentries unless they have drone specs trained — there are a few special-purpose AFK alts that will fall into that one. But again, it's such a minute case that it's not worth bothering with.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-05-29 08:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Quote:
There is actually another crack as well: people will lose their sentries unless they have drone specs trained — there are a few special-purpose AFK alts that will fall into that one. But again, it's such a minute case that it's not worth bothering with.


Hmm, I hadn't considered that one myself. I'm fairly sure I injected Amarr Drone Specialisation for completion-purposes long ago (because, like there was any other good reason to do so), but I bet there will be plenty of folks with bouncers they can't use P
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#51 - 2014-05-29 09:03:30 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:


yes, and no word on SP reimbursement.



why would CCP reimburse SP if you didn't lose any and infact gain more? Ugh

Just Add Water

Tronity Neutronux
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-05-29 10:05:21 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:

why would CCP reimburse SP if you didn't lose any and infact gain more? Ugh


It feels a bit nasty because the dev-blog mislead you to do something dumb. If you had (the pretty easy skilled) Scout Drones already at V it seems you get a gift if you don't skill Combat Drones any further. If you read the dev-blog and skilled Combat Drones to avoid some huge skilltime multiplikation (like in the past with Destroyer or Battle-Cruiser) you did not save but wasted skilltime because the gift after the update is doing the same for you (so you might feel bad now). Anyway I think it's ok without refund and if you have some fresh toon (like me) you could still take advantage from the update.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#53 - 2014-05-29 10:08:39 UTC
Tronity Neutronux wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:

why would CCP reimburse SP if you didn't lose any and infact gain more? Ugh


It feels a bit nasty because the dev-blog mislead you to do something dumb. If you had (the pretty easy skilled) Scout Drones already at V it seems you get a gift if you don't skill Combat Drones any further. If you read the dev-blog and skilled Combat Drones to avoid some huge skilltime multiplikation (like in the past with Destroyer or Battle-Cruiser) you did not save but wasted skilltime because the gift after the update is doing the same for you (so you might feel bad now). Anyway I think it's ok without refund and if you have some fresh toon (like me) you could still take advantage from the update.


So those who play the system lose out and those of us who either have the skills we need or are still skilling dont?

Dont see the problem there

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Tronity Neutronux
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-05-29 10:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tronity Neutronux
Ramona McCandless wrote:

So those who play the system lose out and those of us who either have the skills we need or are still skilling dont?


If you are still skilling Combat Drones you "loose" because you could get it for free after the update (means you are wasting your time via doing something twice). But since it's more like a gift for those who don't skill than a real loose (for those who get it the hard way) nobody steal something from you. That's the reason why I think it's not smart but ok. The only remaining problem I see is the dev-blog that caused that issue (and for sure caused lot of corp-mails that gave some wrong hints).
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#55 - 2014-05-29 10:33:15 UTC
Tronity Neutronux wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

So those who play the system lose out and those of us who either have the skills we need or are still skilling dont?


If you are still skilling Combat Drones you "loose" because you could get it for free after the update (means you are wasting your time via doing something twice). But since it's more like a gift for those who don't skill than a real loose (for those who get it the hard way) nobody steal something from you. That's the reason why I think it's not smart but ok. The only remaining problem I see is the dev-blog that caused that issue (and for sure caused lot of corp-mails that gave some wrong hints).


Aaaand Im lost again

Ah well nm

Ill find out if anything has changed when/if this actually happens

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#56 - 2014-05-29 13:28:11 UTC
Tronity Neutronux wrote:


It feels a bit nasty because the dev-blog mislead you to do something dumb. If you had (the pretty easy skilled) Scout Drones already at V it seems you get a gift if you don't skill Combat Drones any further. If you read the dev-blog and skilled Combat Drones to avoid some huge skilltime multiplikation (like in the past with Destroyer or Battle-Cruiser) you did not save but wasted skilltime because the gift after the update is doing the same for you (so you might feel bad now). Anyway I think it's ok without refund and if you have some fresh toon (like me) you could still take advantage from the update.


nobody mislead you in doing something dumb.

it's a Dev. Blog, a thing developers publish to give it's costumer a glimpse of what they're trying to do and for us to give feedbacks and as such are subject to change.

what you did was assume it won't be changed, tried to take advantage of this information and train CDO V. well buddy, you lost, they changed it and there's nothing you can do about it, sorry.

as i've pointed out before, you didn't lose any SP but actually gained some therefore reimbursement is not necessary.

Just Add Water

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#57 - 2014-05-29 13:41:58 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Hyuni wrote:
Really would love to actually hear some kind of official response.

They have made an official response. You're not getting free SP.

Also, why did you think you would need this? CCP's policy has been "if you can fly now you can fly it after. So, why did you train the skill? Did you think CCP was gonna take away your ability to use drones? They never have and never will.


Ah, no.
That is a lie.

I will need Amarr Drone spec to use Curators, and I don't now.

So you either have ether badly misread what the devs said, or you are propagating the lies CCP has stated.
Serene Repose
#58 - 2014-05-31 15:03:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
CCP Merc wrote:
Your alt will receive the Drone Avionics skill with the same number of skill points that Scout Drone Operation has when Kronos lands. Effectively, we're just renaming Scout Drone Operation to Drone Avionics, so you can safely keep that skill in training without losing any progress Smile
I like this response. You do good forum. I hope these cats keep you around. Thanks.
Clarity is one of my favs. Simplicity makes it so much better.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#59 - 2014-05-31 17:36:14 UTC
My question is: What's up with those of us who have long had Both skills? Because it seems like people are getting free SP who only had the one skill trained, but those of us who had both are getting left out in the cold.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#60 - 2014-05-31 17:44:28 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
My question is: What's up with those of us who have long had Both skills? Because it seems like people are getting free SP who only had the one skill trained, but those of us who had both are getting left out in the cold.


if you know how to compute then you'll find out that even if you have both CDO and SDO skills trained to V you'll still get FREE SP come Kronos, well, not as much as those who only have either CDO V or SDO V but you'll still get free SP nonetheless.

Just Add Water