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Procurer vs Mackinaw ore yield
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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-05-28 15:42:17 UTC
Speed Destiny wrote:
Yes, ok... I agree, it says so...

But from this point of view Mackinaw is almost no upgrade from Procurer... OK, it has a larger ore hold, I agree, but to fill it and make the same production with two miners, you will need to find big asteroids or constantly move it to new ones, which does not make it for a larger ore hold.

Or am I missing something?



In null the asteroid anoms provide seemingly never-ending asteroids like this. Of course they're not never-ending to a 10 man wrecking crew, but for a single pilot the site will probably despawn and respawn before you can mine it out.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#22 - 2014-05-28 15:59:52 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
Yes, ok... I agree, it says so...

But from this point of view Mackinaw is almost no upgrade from Procurer... OK, it has a larger ore hold, I agree, but to fill it and make the same production with two miners, you will need to find big asteroids or constantly move it to new ones, which does not make it for a larger ore hold.

Or am I missing something?



Yes, in null sec there are arkonor, bistot, crokite and spodumain asteroids 100,000 units large, and at 16m3 per unit, those asteroids are 1,600,000m3 in size.


Hell, you can find similar things in hisec (well, not ABC ores) -- so many belts that are left untouched for a week or two because of a wardec ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#23 - 2014-05-28 16:25:16 UTC
trevormax wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


You must be doing something wrong. I can get 4016m3 with my mack. this is with exhumers 5, 3 MLU's, no links or implants. Maybe you need to take skills into account.

The Mack and Skiff gets a 1% / level yield bonus with each exhumer skill level which the proc does not get. The mack has an extra low for the 3rd MLU that a skiff and proc does not have. I am not fully up to date with the coming changes but I believe the skiff (and possibly the proc) will get an extra low.


The Mackinaw does have three low slots but that doesn't mean you should put an MLU in each one. A sensible miner will put a DC II module in the third slot.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#24 - 2014-05-28 16:39:18 UTC
Speed Destiny wrote:
I was expecting that a T2 ship is more efficient than a T1...

Rebalancing in what way?



You need to read the dev blog. The changes are designed to 'encourage' miners to use the full range of mining vessels. Since the first change the Retriever & Mackinaw have been the most popular due to their large ore holds. Before the first change the Hulk was most popular for ore mining & the Mackinaw was most popular for ice mining.

CCP Fozzie is making iterations to make the other mining vessels more attractive. In certain circumstances I think the changes may work but on the whole I expect miners will largely stay with what they are flying now. More EHP or higher resistances should have been given to the Hulk as it is still fairly defenceless if the primary defence ie intelligence of local threats and mining techniques fail.

I can't remember the specifics of the changes but they are largely a buff to mining. Changes includes increased sub-warp speed, increased range for both mining lasers and scanners, increased drone damage, & decreased cycle time which will give increased yield. Not all these changes will be applied to all the vessels. You'll have to read the dev blog or the F&I board.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#25 - 2014-05-28 17:03:27 UTC
Speed Destiny wrote:
Well, after 3 pages, I got nothing on the subject... I thought this is what community is for to help with specific questions... Google rendered posts from 2012-2013... I guess would have been easier to just answer instead of saying my questions are stupid.

I don't want to know what devs are planning, I just wanted to know what to buy for my next miner and since someone mentioned rebalancing, I thought someone can give me a hint of what's coming about ships I was asking...

Well, never mind. Nice community, and thanks for help.



To be honest you are going to be best off flying what you fly now. If you fly a Mackinaw now be aware that I think the yield is going to decrease on that ship a little.

Procurer: Fly this if you don't feel totally safe in-system. It's fairly gank-proof.

Retriever: If you feel safe fly this. You can try to fit some tank but it's not easy to protect without gimping the yield. I think a lot of miners fit it for yield and work on the assumption that the increased profit will cover the occasional ganked loss.

Mackinaw: Can be fitted with sufficient tank to keep it fairly safe. Don't be the '3x MLU' guy. ;) More yield than the Retriever.

Covetor & Hulk: Fleet mining ships only. You have to be at the keyboard chatting to corpies or doing other in-game stuff to fly these babies. Will be more yield on the Hulk after the iteration but your eyes have to be kept peeled. :)

Whatever you're flying fit 'active' tanks eg a DCII if nothing else unless your working on the 'profit covers losses' method. Keep a low profile whenever possible and don't make it extremely obvious you are a mining or industry corp. Don't **** off other miners and if possible avoid using multiple accounts that obviously run by one person or use ISBoxer. You'll be fine then. :)
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-05-28 18:02:18 UTC
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


Ok what am I missing here? I get ( in a fleet) 2253m3 per cycle with maxed skills apart form only having Exhumers 4. All T2 gear as well. I even have mining drones at level 5 as well! My alt with Exhumers 5 gets 2275m3.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-05-28 18:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Drago Shouna wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


Ok what am I missing here? I get ( in a fleet) 2253m3 per cycle with maxed skills apart form only having Exhumers 4. All T2 gear as well. I even have mining drones at level 5 as well! My alt with Exhumers 5 gets 2275m3.


With what ship and fit? That would really only make sense with, e.g., T2 strips with no crystals. A procurer with no mods, ganglinks, or other boosts will pull over 2500 m3 per cycle from a T1 strip miner. If you're looking at yield values in EFT, those are per minute, not per cycle.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-05-28 18:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


Ok what am I missing here? I get ( in a fleet) 2253m3 per cycle with maxed skills apart form only having Exhumers 4. All T2 gear as well. I even have mining drones at level 5 as well! My alt with Exhumers 5 gets 2275m3.


With what ship and fit? That would really only make sense with, e.g., T2 strips with no crystals. A procurer with no mods, ganglinks, or other boosts will pull over 2500 m3 per cycle from a T1 strip miner. If you're looking at yield values in EFT, those are per minute, not per cycle.


T2 strips and Crystals. Both in Macks, 3xT2 mlu. I'm looking at per cycle as we speak.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-05-28 18:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Drago Shouna wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


Ok what am I missing here? I get ( in a fleet) 2253m3 per cycle with maxed skills apart form only having Exhumers 4. All T2 gear as well. I even have mining drones at level 5 as well! My alt with Exhumers 5 gets 2275m3.


With what ship and fit? That would really only make sense with, e.g., T2 strips with no crystals. A procurer with no mods, ganglinks, or other boosts will pull over 2500 m3 per cycle from a T1 strip miner. If you're looking at yield values in EFT, those are per minute, not per cycle.


T2 strips and Crystals. Both in Macks, 3xT2 mlu. I'm looking at per cycle as we speak.


...huh. Screenshot?

Are you sure you're not looking at the stats for just one laser? Because that would actually be spot on for a single strip miner II on a mackinaw with orca boosts.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-05-28 18:54:43 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Drago Shouna wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


Ok what am I missing here? I get ( in a fleet) 2253m3 per cycle with maxed skills apart form only having Exhumers 4. All T2 gear as well. I even have mining drones at level 5 as well! My alt with Exhumers 5 gets 2275m3.


With what ship and fit? That would really only make sense with, e.g., T2 strips with no crystals. A procurer with no mods, ganglinks, or other boosts will pull over 2500 m3 per cycle from a T1 strip miner. If you're looking at yield values in EFT, those are per minute, not per cycle.


T2 strips and Crystals. Both in Macks, 3xT2 mlu. I'm looking at per cycle as we speak.


...huh. Screenshot?

Are you sure you're not looking at the stats for just one laser? Because that would actually be spot on for a single strip miner II on a mackinaw with orca boosts.


Ok i'm thick :-) I'm looking at the output of a single strip miner at 2253 m3 and 2275 m3 rather than jointly ;/ Apologies and if I ever meet you I owe you a pint :-)

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
trevormax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-05-29 20:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: trevormax
Speed Destiny wrote:
trevormax wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


You must be doing something wrong. I can get 4016m3 with my mack. this is with exhumers 5, 3 MLU's, no links or implants. Maybe you need to take skills into account.

The Mack and Skiff gets a 1% / level yield bonus with each exhumer skill level which the proc does not get. The mack has an extra low for the 3rd MLU that a skiff and proc does not have. I am not fully up to date with the coming changes but I believe the skiff (and possibly the proc) will get an extra low.


No, I was calculating with MY CURRENT skills. I will check in EveHQ what can I train to get more... But thanks...


Well I wouldn't have a clue why you aren't getting better yield based on YOUR skills seeing as you didn't mention your skills in your OP. You mentioned a fit for both ships and asked why you don't get a much better yield with the T2 ship. I pointed out that you DO get better yield with the T2 ships.

Still there is your answer, your skills need improving. That is why you do not see the difference. Train Exhumers skill. Also the T2 ships have slightly larger ore holds and better tank than their T1 versions along with other small improvements.
trevormax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-05-29 21:01:33 UTC
Bethan Le Troix wrote:
trevormax wrote:
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?


You must be doing something wrong. I can get 4016m3 with my mack. this is with exhumers 5, 3 MLU's, no links or implants. Maybe you need to take skills into account.

The Mack and Skiff gets a 1% / level yield bonus with each exhumer skill level which the proc does not get. The mack has an extra low for the 3rd MLU that a skiff and proc does not have. I am not fully up to date with the coming changes but I believe the skiff (and possibly the proc) will get an extra low.


The Mackinaw does have three low slots but that doesn't mean you should put an MLU in each one. A sensible miner will put a DC II module in the third slot.


Well that may be true in some/most cases, but his OP was comparing a proc to a mack with 3 MLU's. My post was just to point out that with 3 MLU's on my mack, i get more yield than what he says he gets with 3 MLU's on a mack.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-05-30 19:41:45 UTC
Speed Destiny wrote:
There is something I don't understand...

In my Procurer with:

1x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
2x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get the following yield 3228 m3.

However if I monkey with Mackinaw in EveHQ, and add to it:

2x Modulated Strip Miner II (Crystal II)
3x Mining Laser Upgrade II

I get 3518 m3

This is very odd since it has two miners, why the difference is so low?

Gerrymandering for the sake of "balance".

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

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