Science & Industry

the 400mm reinforced steel plate I seems to have been forgotten/fallen out of its group

I assumed DEVs knew you could only broker deals in EVE with free beers. You forgot or something? ;)

you'd be better off just deleting 100mm plate down ... also micro shield extenders..they are also useless

Just as an aside, what role do you imagine the 50mm plate to serve?

Same thing with small shield extenders, and such.

Also, those changes look good. Except for maybe how it relates jump freighters.

Right now JF manu is in a bad place due to only in-station production. The pos module to build them being unfucked is a significant step forward, please don't undo that beautiful long time coming fix! :)

I do see you mentioned it earlier so I'm glad they won't fall by the wayside. The market is "annoying" enough as it is.

If you adjust this downwards, don't forget to also adjust the copy speed of a T3 caldari outpost as well -- they can get 50% copy speed bonus at T3 along with their ME/PE bonus. Otherwise, you're just making gallente outposts the red-headed stepchild of outposts while not seriously affecting "maximum" copy speed.

If you are doing this big change to EVE industry, I thing that it is the right time to do something with T2 BPO and invention.

There is no way for player inventing T2 BPC and than manufacturing from it to be cheeper on the market than player who is manufacturing from T2 BPO. For long time I was trying to check market prices of needed materiáls compared to product prices. There was no possibility to make some profit on it. So why should I loose time with something like this?

So I decided to check which T2 BPO was available before CCP changed it. Than I just choosed modules and ships which has no T2 BPO existing, because they came to the game after the T2 BPO change. I again tryed to check market prices of needed materials compared to product prices and now I saw, that there is some possibility for a little profit. So I started to invent and manufacture these modules / ships.

I guess 99% of players do this the same way I did.

Players who has T2 BPO rules market prices and nobody can manufacture even at the same cost as they do. So there is pointless to invent and manufacture anything for which T2 BPO exists in the game.

Mostly all the changes you make to the T2 instrustry will be pointless without removing balancing this issue.

So I suggest remove from the game all existing T2 BPOs. So there could be only one possibility to go through invention for T2 modules and ships. OR give to T2 BPC some boost - so Invention and manufacturing costs will be and same level as T2 BPO manufacturing costs.

Let's please not get sidetracked into T2 BPO future right now :) We're not touching it in Crius (or Kronos!) unless something unavoidable comes up, but we are (as you'll see by reading this thread) significantly improving T2 BPCs in relation to BPOs. That is the final word on the issue for now and I'd appreciate it if we saved further discussion for another thread :)

Good to know.

Feedback to Greyscale’s blueprints_public_draft_2.csv

I felt it was necessary to create an alt to write this post. I’ll explain why in the end of my post, so that we can get started with the actual suggestions.

The Exhumers rank is set to the same as T2 cruisers to rank 400. This has a large impact on the Skiff and Mackinaw BPO’s production output. The Skiff BPO’s production output is cut in half. My suggestion is to set the ranks to

Ship – rank – old build time – new build time
Hulk – rank 400 – 120000 – 120000
Mackinaw – rank 300 – 80000 – 90000
Skiff – rank 200 – 60000 – 60000

This will almost preserve the current build times. That way the Skiff and Mackinaw BPO’s are not getting a large nerf on top of the huge nerf coming from the invention buff.

If you don’t want them to have different ranks, I suggest that all 3 exhumers get rank 300, to achieve a middle ground around the current build times.

Wow, just noticed that you doubled all the ranks for T2 ships in draft_3. That certainly do not give the same throughput as it does today. I hope that is a mistake.



In the blueprints_public_draft_2.csv file all T2 BPO copy times are set to 3 times the build time and max-run of 1. I do not understand why T2 BPO’s should be exempted from the general rule of a copy time that equals the build time, so that it is feasible to build from copies in a POS. Since it will no longer be possible to remote build from BPO in a POS it seems fair that you instead can make a copy in roughly the same time frame and build from the copy instead in the POS. The max-run of 1 also makes it very difficult to produce from copies. Why is this new limit necessary?

The player that bought an expensive high-end T1 BPO can produce copies from the BPO in roughly the same time it takes to build the items and use the copies in a pos and that way keep the BPO safe in a station. On the other hand a player that decided to buy a T2 BPO can not use that method in practice because of the high copy time and max-run limit of 1. Why this discrimination? My suggestion is simple: Keep the copy times consistently lower than build times on all blueprints and restore the max-run values for T2 blueprint . If the outpost bonuses has something to do with this then my suggestion is to make the outpost research/copy bonuses apply to T1 blueprints only.



The invention buff where invented BPC’s get ME 0 - 4 is a massive nerf to all T2 BPO’s. You write that this change is not intentionally targeted at nerfing T2 BPO’s. To counter balance this just a little bit, I suggest that the new blueprint data for T2 BPO’s are chosen friendly towards the player base that owns these kinds of blueprints. 

I am hoping to get a reply from Greyscale on these points.



As one or two of you might have guessed by now (except, I hope not, that you jumped right to the end of my post to read this) I own some T2 BPO’s myself. I have played eveonline for several years, and I always found that the T2 blueprint originals were the most interesting aspect of this game. I would probably have stopped playing eve long ago without this game content. It is not very interesting to right click in the market browser and select buy on a blueprint. The task of getting a good T2 BPO is a hunt in competition with other players that often got my heart pumping faster. It is also a large achievement because you need to invest a large sum of ISK in a T2 BPO. It makes a purpose for grinding. Many players goal is to get into a super capital. That is not for me.

Alright, back to the alt thing. Reading these devblog threads, it feels like manufacturer using T2 BPO’s are subject to a witch hunt and the balancing team is playing along. My request is simply that you take a balanced view on both professions and consider both inventors and T2 BPO manufacturers instead of nerfing the value of T2 BPO’s that has taken years to achieve.

Hmm, didn’t I forget something.