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[BALANCE] Myrmidon (Prophecy) Drone BONUS
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#41 - 2014-05-27 20:42:50 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

beams. humiliating isnt it?


Beams are pretty humiliating, especially when the TDs land.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#42 - 2014-05-27 20:49:26 UTC
Lidia Caderu wrote:
Standard damage bonus is 5%. BC's have doubled standard damage bonus - 10%. (Hurricane has 5% to damage, and 5% to fire speed - so pretty much anyway). So if standard damage bonus is 5% and standard drone damage is 10%, shouldn't Myrmidon have at least +15% to drone damage??
Currently it does not have any bonus advantage like other BC's.

Personaly I dislike greatly idea of reducing slot number of drone boats. So old Myrm I liked much more than current.
So in my opinion Myrm may look like:
- +15% to drone damage (only small, medium, large, no sentries)
- 85mbit drone bindwidth (3 large + 1 med or other variations possible)
- 6 hislots and 6 turret stots
- add some PG for hi-slot.

That would be much better than current Myrm.
For Prophecy:
- +15% to drone damage (only large and sentries)
- 6 hi-slots, 5 launcher slots (damage will be same).
- add some PG for hi slot.

Might be a bit overpowered, but this is general direction.

edit: ~150m3 drone bay for Myrm


So wait a moment -first you reduce the drone bandwitdth so the Myrm can't use 4 heavies anymore, then you make the damage bonus 15% per level instead of 10%? You do know this ends up exactly the same as now at level 5, right?

Looks like you really hate the Myrm if you want to nerf the ship so bad. Well, a nerf for everyone who hasn't Gallente BC at level 5. Big smile

Replacing the resist-bonus on the Prophecy with a higher damage bonus could work, however. At level 5 the Prophecy would have the same DPS as a (un-nerfed) Myrm, but the Myrm would have the stronger tank. OK wait, give the Prophecy more armor hp as compensation. Done. Big smile
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-05-27 23:55:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The myrm is the highest dps CBC in the game currently. Shield fits are hilarious.

you mean the harbinger?

An overheating pure dps harb does about 10 less dps than an unheated blaster shield myrm. It's that much.

a heavy pulse harbinger absolutely blows the myrm out of the water.

http://i.imgur.com/Qsjpbmd.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xLIIrxi.jpg

beams. humiliating isnt it?


>a heavy pulse harbinger absolutely blows the myrm out of the water

What are you smoking? http://i.imgur.com/zMk4xjT.png

Of course medium beams beat the myrm. They are a higher dps weapon system than medium pulse lasers. Humiliating isn't it? Not knowing which weapon system does more dps. Heavy pulse harbinger does not blow the myrm out of the water =P Especially not when you put the proper max dps drone setup on the myrm, and push 1250 dps with geckos ;)
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-05-28 00:01:09 UTC
Pulses are underpowered. Harbingers should have significantly more DPS than Myrmidons because Myrmidons have better tank, projection, and damage type, and their weapons cost less capacitor and powergrid.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#45 - 2014-05-28 00:43:24 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
The myrm is the highest dps CBC in the game currently. Shield fits are hilarious.

you mean the harbinger?

An overheating pure dps harb does about 10 less dps than an unheated blaster shield myrm. It's that much.

a heavy pulse harbinger absolutely blows the myrm out of the water.

http://i.imgur.com/Qsjpbmd.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xLIIrxi.jpg

beams. humiliating isnt it?


>a heavy pulse harbinger absolutely blows the myrm out of the water

What are you smoking? http://i.imgur.com/zMk4xjT.png

Of course medium beams beat the myrm. They are a higher dps weapon system than medium pulse lasers. Humiliating isn't it? Not knowing which weapon system does more dps. Heavy pulse harbinger does not blow the myrm out of the water =P Especially not when you put the proper max dps drone setup on the myrm, and push 1250 dps with geckos ;)

you obviously have the wrong drones in the dps is most definitely higher than beams

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-05-28 00:45:03 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
the dps is most definitely higher than beams
yes, but not significantly

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-05-28 01:29:18 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:

An overheating pure dps harb does about 10 less dps than an unheated blaster shield myrm. It's that much.

a heavy pulse harbinger absolutely blows the myrm out of the water.

http://i.imgur.com/Qsjpbmd.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xLIIrxi.jpg

beams. humiliating isnt it?


>a heavy pulse harbinger absolutely blows the myrm out of the water

What are you smoking? http://i.imgur.com/zMk4xjT.png

Of course medium beams beat the myrm. They are a higher dps weapon system than medium pulse lasers. Humiliating isn't it? Not knowing which weapon system does more dps. Heavy pulse harbinger does not blow the myrm out of the water =P Especially not when you put the proper max dps drone setup on the myrm, and push 1250 dps with geckos ;)

you obviously have the wrong drones in the dps is most definitely higher than beams


I have identical drones in. A max skilled harbinger with 2 6% damage implants and 4 tech 2 heat sinks does
6 x Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflag ammo, overheat: 948 DPS
6 x Heavy Beam Laser II, Gleam ammo, overheat: 965 DPS
That is excluding any drone damage. feel free to check for yourself, beams are higher dps, at better range.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#48 - 2014-05-28 02:20:41 UTC
Arronicus wrote:

I have identical drones in.


I detect your failure.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-05-28 03:00:30 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Arronicus wrote:

I have identical drones in.


I detect your failure.


Your comment doesn't make any sense. I suspect I'm missing sacrcasm or some sort of joke.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-05-28 03:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

you obviously have the wrong drones in the dps is most definitely higher than beams



No, he's rightish. Medium lasers are ******* weird and beams do more paper DPS than pulse with stock ammo.

An unbonused, max skill heavy beam II does 40 DPS with stock MF, while a Heavy Pulse II in the same conditions does only 36.

Pulse pull some insignificant amount ahead with conflag, though (like half a percent better than gleam or some such similar value), until overheating is brought into play. Pulse get +15% damage from heating, but beams get -15% cycle time, which is a slightly stronger bonus. It's about +17.6% DPS, vs the straight +15% for pulse.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-05-28 04:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
nvm.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-05-28 10:19:42 UTC
With tech 2 ammo, medium pulses do slightly more than beams.

Why do you people keep flinging poo without checking?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-05-28 12:58:02 UTC
Lidia Caderu wrote:
Arronicus wrote:
Myrm has 10% to damage AND rep rate bonus.
Drake has 10% to damage AND resist bonus.
Harb has 10% to damage AND capacitor use bonus.

Hurricane has 5% to damage and 5% to rate of fire.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist here to see the myrm is already with the good bonus group, and it's the hurricane that needs a bonus increase.

10% is doubled bonus for guns, so Myrm needs to have at least 15% to be in line. as i've said before bandwidth/m3 also should be lowered etc, etc.
Start a separate topic on Hurricane. It should have +10% to damage, +7.5% to tracking. And fleet version +10% to falloff.


OMFG. Looking at blunt numbers is the stupidest thing you can do. Compare actual dps and not bonuses. Harbi got 10% coz 1 of its turrets was removed. That it.

By the same mechanics why don’t we increase Myrm drone bonus to 20% and reduce its bandwidth to 50. Sounds ok for you?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-05-28 14:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
With tech 2 ammo, medium pulses do slightly more than beams.

Why do you people keep flinging poo without checking?


...but only while "cold". It is a pretty weird arrangement and I don't think the raw DPS numbers for anything else (including other sized lasers) match up quite the same way as the mediums do.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#55 - 2014-05-28 19:48:00 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:


OMFG. Looking at blunt numbers is the stupidest thing you can do. Compare actual dps and not bonuses. Harbi got 10% coz 1 of its turrets was removed. That it.

By the same mechanics why don’t we increase Myrm drone bonus to 20% and reduce its bandwidth to 50. Sounds ok for you?


also +1 hi slot. Myrm will be nice with Smalls and Meds. For Large damage will be same.

all these theoretical hi-dps can be seen only in PVE, I really have not seen somebody using myrm in null since these changes were made. Currently Myrm not much usefull, there are better ships like Prophecy or ishtar. Really there is no role in PVP for Myrm now, even regarding its "huge" dps.
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2014-05-28 20:11:08 UTC
I Think someone needs to stop trying to compare bonuses and percentages and do some math to prove unbalance.

remember pure damage is not the only thing to consider you need to consider.
DPS
Projected DPS
Tank
Utility
Speed

and directly compare them. They will have trade off's and this is what makes it balanced. if you can use numbers to prove something have a pure numbers advantage in all categories without a valid tradeoff then you can scram buff/nerf

Till then no one is going to take you seriously and or care.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#57 - 2014-05-28 20:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
Sorana Bonzari wrote:
I Think someone needs to stop trying to compare bonuses and percentages and do some math to prove unbalance.

remember pure damage is not the only thing to consider you need to consider.
DPS
Projected DPS
Tank
Utility
Speed

and directly compare them. They will have trade off's and this is what makes it balanced. if you can use numbers to prove something have a pure numbers advantage in all categories without a valid tradeoff then you can scram buff/nerf

Till then no one is going to take you seriously and or care.


Let somebody instead of calculating huge DPS calculate usability and actual fits currently used in PVP situations
Sorana Bonzari
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-05-28 20:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sorana Bonzari
Lidia Caderu wrote:

Let somebody instead of calculating huge DPS calculate usability and actual fits currently used in PVP situations



Usability is a qualitative function of the individual not a quantitative function of the ship. CCP is not going to balance a ship based on the fact that YOU are unable to fly it correctly and/or well. Its a function of how the ship preforms and what special tradeoffs make the ship unique for players that want to take advantage of the uniqueness.

Edit:
So if you want to balance on usability change the role of ship

if you want to balance on its DPS show me the numbers
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#59 - 2014-05-29 08:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
Sorana Bonzari wrote:
Lidia Caderu wrote:

Let somebody instead of calculating huge DPS calculate usability and actual fits currently used in PVP situations



Usability is a qualitative function of the individual not a quantitative function of the ship. CCP is not going to balance a ship based on the fact that YOU are unable to fly it correctly and/or well. Its a function of how the ship preforms and what special tradeoffs make the ship unique for players that want to take advantage of the uniqueness.

Edit:
So if you want to balance on usability change the role of ship

if you want to balance on its DPS show me the numbers

Oh deer.
Look at Ferox, its forgotten ship. Do you think nobody flies it just because everybody is ******** and not able to fly it normally? It has such a nice sniping role, but even those 3 people who uses it fit blasters in it.

About +10% bonus because of 6 turrets. So for 7 turrents damage will be: 7*1.25 = 8.75, for 6: 6*1.5 = 9. So they got a bit higher dps. For Myrm it may be 12.5% drone bonus for example, but without lowering bindwidth in that case. Different variations possible.
Please dont forger that Myrm also holds Meds and small drones and thay also need to be calculated when you calculate DPS, because Everybody who calculates DPS calculate mostly large (not even centries).
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#60 - 2014-05-29 08:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
.