Player Features and Ideas Discussion

(It's goons! Goons all the way down!)

The best part is that it wouldn't even be a violation of the spirit of my suggestion either.

You have no proof or precedent to show that it will never work the only thing you are basing it off of is your own dislike of my solution. I'm sure its a bitter pill to swallow considering you're a member of the offending group even if you are not exhibiting the behavior the suggestion will curb.

However I do have the precedent and example behind my suggestion via the improvement that could be seen when it was enacted in CAOD.

No, it's based on my knowledge of this community and its behaviour patterns.

As I keep saying, that's a niche, basically IC forum - it doesnt live by the same value set or rules as the others. And nor should it.

You seem to keep saying it will stop trolling, it fundamentally will not and you're clearly smart enough to realise this.

It'll stop trolling about as much as concord stops ganking, maybe even less.


And to be clear I dislike the idea because of a) the collateral damage, b) the overall liklihood of ineffectiveness, c) the unforseen side effects and d) the fact that it'll only work if ISD have the tools to make it work and with those tools the ENTIRE idea is completely rudundant.

The only was to guarantee to block all trolling and garbage posts from forums is to submit all posts to a human moderator for review before they are posted. There is a way around absolutely everything else and the solution is not practical to implement. Welcome to the Internet.

Probably the easiest way to mitigate the amount of trolling and garbage posts is to charge people $1 per forum post (or deduct half a day from their account time). Which will be about as popular and openly welcomed as Incarna was.

CONCORD stops quite a bit of ganking so it would be a vast improvement.

Its not IC anymore than GD, missions and complexes, OOPE or ships and modules is. You're completely ignoring that there is evidence that this approach does work while there is no evidence showing what you claim it does point b, c and d are all wild speculation.

Back up the bolded part with at least 300 words worth of coherent cogent justification and I'll consider you have a point. Otherwise you're doing the same thing as almost all of the other NPC members have done in this thread "I don't like this change therefore its bad and I have no support or justification for my claims."

I have repeatedly demonstrated collateral damage - a key example being the work of stoicfaux none of his work would be published under your proposal.

Here's another - we wouldnt have the EFT link thread either.

B & C are the balance of probability. Of course there is a lack of evidence because it has not been enacted.

D is an obvious and foregone conclusion because without the tools the trolls go nowhere. What, you think that people trolling with agendas will magically stop without enforcement? You're not that naive, so stop pretending to be so.


I have made several points with justification and you've unilaterally swept them aside as collateral damage, edge cases or "poor me, look at the goon getting picked on" - as if I care about your corp ticker: Reel your ego in, not everyone cares about goons. And why do all of this? Seemingly because the problems this creates don't sit well with your view of the world, as you've posted no actual evidence save "well it worked in this subforum therefore one size [almost] fits all so lets crack on and damn the consequences".

You have not demonstrated that the levels of trolling in the forums I mention matches, for example, GD (hint, it's not even at the races - something you'd know if you were actually in the little forums that often).
You have not accounted for the fact that people trolling with an agenda, or playing the metagame will not trivially sidestep this simply because they are doing it for a reason.
You have not shown that simply empowering ISD further (or indeed, correctly) would not be sufficient.
You have shown no willingness to compromise or have a graduated escalation of this.
You are fixing a problem that essentially doesn't exist to any meaningful level in many subforms with nothing other your opinion as justification.

The burdens of proof typically fall to he who is proposing change. So perhaps some numbers might be provided? Number of locked threads, for example. Number of ISD cleanups. Perhaps by subforum over the last 6 months.


Furthermore, you have not (unless my eyes fail me) responded to :




Your lack of willingness to start small and work up, to entertain better options for ISD and that alone to start with, your willingness to let so much good content on subforums be snuffed out to handle what is a minority problem there points towards it being B. Of course I expect your rebuttal here to be "goonspiracy" as opposed to an actual set of counter points. Perhaps it genuinely is simply "A" - but your responses and their tone do not allude to such.


PS: I don't dance to anyone's tune - the reply is what it is as I'm tiring of your failure to address critical points and what amounts to the broken record of "COAD" and "poor goons" any time people disagree.

Lol what? No, the restriction of their posting abilities does not require that each and every last one be trolling. Only that enough of them are, and that placing those restrictions would improve discourse on the forum in general.

It has been proven to be the case that it has improved discourse in the forum where it was implemented.



Fine with me.

It should have that requirement. There is no reason my post content and my ability to post should be divorced from each other. As to being even more exclusive I can only assume you don't know who some of those are that would be removed or simply don't care about what they have contributed. Either way it provides a very flimsy basis for your stance.

The 1% of NPC posters argument is not nearly of the same relevance as others who would be disallowed posting under full CAOD rules. That said a part of me does find amusement in Chribba, Stoicfaux , Tippia and Gripen to name a few being lumped in and cast aside for the supposed betterment of the forums. But that in turn comes around to demonstrate how ill conceived and poorly measure the idea is and how expanding beyond NPC corps made it exponentially worse.

I'm fully willing to disagree here as I've stated, but it really bears repeating in my opinion, on the off chance this receives any serious consideration, that the reality of this exclusion is a greater negative than it's benefits and serves no purpose that isn't better handled by forum moderation and other forum users practicing good decisions in what and how to respond than any blanket ban that some of those affected didn't earn. I'd almost consider that self evident, but then we have this ongoing topic.