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Golem why are Torps so fail?
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Angua Eteria
Mad Men Inc
#1 - 2014-05-21 14:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Angua Eteria
http://imgur.com/kHSG4zr

For people who just don't seem to understand. The fittings I'v posted is for Highsec L4. Don't really know how some of you don't get it.

What i was trying to illustrate was that Long range T2 Torps are inferior to close range T2 Cruise.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#2 - 2014-05-21 14:58:23 UTC
Try not gimping your DPS by using long range torps?

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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2014-05-21 16:17:37 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Try not gimping your DPS by using long range torps?


This. If you consistently want that kind of range -- use cruises. If you want in your face damage, use torps. This isn't hard.
Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-05-21 16:22:28 UTC
IMO, torps aren't worth the effort. Shorter range, higher dps, more difficult damage application.

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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-05-21 18:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Moonlit Raid
Nolen Cadmar wrote:
IMO, torps aren't worth the effort. Shorter range, higher dps, more difficult damage application.

QFT really, I tried an mwd, bastion, double tp golem with rage torps. Yes great damage up close but it wasn't a cap happy tank and was a ball ache to fly between groups. I also have a missioning vindi but this golem just didn't do it, having to wait for bastion cycles totally killed any speed gained from high dps.

Cruise launchers are just superior in every way.

I look forward to the first ever torpedo battleship due to be released soon.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-21 22:19:08 UTC
Angua Eteria wrote:
http://imgur.com/kHSG4zr


Solution: Don't put torps on Golems.
Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-05-22 18:02:37 UTC
Long range torps, not rigged for application but range....compared to "recently" buffed cruisemissiles is an unfair comparison really.
Claud Tiberius
#8 - 2014-05-23 02:02:55 UTC
In my experience you shouldn't swap launcher types in your fit (eg: cruise/torp, rocket/missile, HAM/HM,...) because, the different launchers have different costs and will effect the performance of your ship. For example, a TP is useful for long range missile boat. But a web is better for close range. You wouldn't carry both, thus why you must choose one launcher type to stick with (As usual, maximize your cpu/power usage).

What the ammo types: (Jav vs Fury) give you, is damage application flexibility in these specialized missile fits. For example if you decide to use Fury Torps as your main ammo type, you should also bring Jav Torps, just in case the enemy are able to out maneuver the Fury Torps (i.e.: getting out of Range). The same goes if you decide to use Fury Cruise missiles, you would also carry precision cruiser missiles, in case the enemy are too fast or too small to hit with Furys.


That's why each missile has two versions of itself. From rockets, to citadel missiles.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#9 - 2014-05-23 07:09:54 UTC
Because only a few people that actually flown the golem halve way decent and did know the flaws of it as dedicated Torp BS and asked for specific changes(far more mwd speed, another torp damage application bonus) instead of the bastion.

But yeah, people get what they ask for and the "one change suits all, there are no individual problems with the marauders" and "hey we need a ship class for afk L4 tanking" is what you get.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#10 - 2014-05-23 14:56:41 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Claud Tiberius wrote:
In my experience you shouldn't swap launcher types in your fit (eg: cruise/torp, rocket/missile, HAM/HM,...) because, the different launchers have different costs and will effect the performance of your ship. For example, a TP is useful for long range missile boat. But a web is better for close range. You wouldn't carry both, thus why you must choose one launcher type to stick with (As usual, maximize your cpu/power usage).

What the ammo types: (Jav vs Fury) give you, is damage application flexibility in these specialized missile fits. For example if you decide to use Fury Torps as your main ammo type, you should also bring Jav Torps, just in case the enemy are able to out maneuver the Fury Torps (i.e.: getting out of Range). The same goes if you decide to use Fury Cruise missiles, you would also carry precision cruiser missiles, in case the enemy are too fast or too small to hit with Furys.


That's why each missile has two versions of itself. From rockets, to citadel missiles.



Jav is designed for long range opinion but is terrible. Due to only 80km with Rig and 5% which is nothing to Cruise that can fire further 250km in same condition. if you have mission that may require jav. you may well bring cruise missile instead.

Fury Cruise do rough same dps as Rage Torp against Cruiser/BC (torp kill BS faster than Cruise)

Cruise's Precision missile have more range (200km with range rigs)

would it be game breaking if Jav do more dps than Cruise Fury?
Claud Tiberius
#11 - 2014-05-24 01:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Claud Tiberius
unidenify wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:
In my experience you shouldn't swap launcher types in your fit (eg: cruise/torp, rocket/missile, HAM/HM,...) because, the different launchers have different costs and will effect the performance of your ship. For example, a TP is useful for long range missile boat. But a web is better for close range. You wouldn't carry both, thus why you must choose one launcher type to stick with (As usual, maximize your cpu/power usage).

What the ammo types: (Jav vs Fury) give you, is damage application flexibility in these specialized missile fits. For example if you decide to use Fury Torps as your main ammo type, you should also bring Jav Torps, just in case the enemy are able to out maneuver the Fury Torps (i.e.: getting out of Range). The same goes if you decide to use Fury Cruise missiles, you would also carry precision cruiser missiles, in case the enemy are too fast or too small to hit with Furys.


That's why each missile has two versions of itself. From rockets, to citadel missiles.



Jav is designed for long range opinion but is terrible. Due to only 80km with Rig and 5% which is nothing to Cruise that can fire further 250km in same condition. if you have mission that may require jav. you may well bring cruise missile instead.

Fury Cruise do rough same dps as Rage Torp against Cruiser/BC (torp kill BS faster than Cruise)

Cruise's Precision missile have more range (200km with range rigs)

would it be game breaking if Jav do more dps than Cruise Fury?

??? Sorry but your gamma is a bit bad, so I've had a hard time figuring out what you just said.

I think you are saying CM are generally better then Torps? You should take a look at the stats: http://i.imgur.com/91QMiw3.png The are fairly equal in performance when you consider range, RoF, damage, launcher capacity, explosion radius, etc... The difference is, they only excel in different ways, which effects your combat abilities.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#12 - 2014-05-24 02:35:07 UTC
I lol'd @ "you dont fit 2 TPs and web".

2 slot tank (gist b xl + DG invuln), Use the MJD to jump into the ****, use 2 painters and a web.

w/Navy ammo... 50k range, 1200 DPS, 327m Explosion radius.

CM Golem hits around a thousand DPS and out to 100K with precision missiles.

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#13 - 2014-05-24 03:07:21 UTC
Nolen Cadmar wrote:
IMO, torps aren't worth the effort. Shorter range, higher dps, more difficult damage application.

meh yeah, pretty much. I have t2 trained up, only real solid use seems on a SB where you can cloak your range to the desired distance on target. So yeah, depending on your target, you can get into short range with little effort. Otherwise, most every other ship, cruise missiles seem best.

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Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-05-24 05:13:26 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
I lol'd @ "you dont fit 2 TPs and web".

2 slot tank (gist b xl + DG invuln), Use the MJD to jump into the ****, use 2 painters and a web.

w/Navy ammo... 50k range, 1200 DPS, 327m Explosion radius.

CM Golem hits around a thousand DPS and out to 100K with precision missiles.


In practice it still blows.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-05-24 21:44:37 UTC
Torps are great for bashing sbus and ihubs, though you probably shouldn't do it in a Golem. Bear
Angua Eteria
Mad Men Inc
#16 - 2014-05-26 13:31:30 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Try not gimping your DPS by using long range torps?


I not sure if you are trolling or just slow?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2014-05-27 10:39:32 UTC
Torp Golem

Tis a viable ship.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-05-27 11:47:47 UTC
"Guys, why is my short range fit with a bunch of range extensions less effective than a long range fit with high-damage ammo and application rigs?"

Did you even look at your fits before you came here?
NIFTYGetAtMe
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-05-27 19:28:50 UTC
When you are using the Golem for the proper missions (vs. Serpentis/Guristas) you should never use cruise missiles or javelin torps. You won't ever have to reach that range in the proper missions and you will never need an MJD, so you can get a full tank with exceptional damage and application. The Golem is bonused to make torps more than viable. Why this debate continues to rage on even with the clear advantages of torpedo fits is so very far beyond me though.
stoicfaux
#20 - 2014-05-28 02:29:00 UTC
NIFTYGetAtMe wrote:
When you are using the Golem for the proper missions (vs. Serpentis/Guristas) you should never use cruise missiles or javelin torps. You won't ever have to reach that range in the proper missions and you will never need an MJD, so you can get a full tank with exceptional damage and application. The Golem is bonused to make torps more than viable. Why this debate continues to rage on even with the clear advantages of torpedo fits is so very far beyond me though.

Meh. Not sure torps are worth the effort: fury v cruise against NPCs.

You save 2-4 seconds against battleships, 1 second versus non-elite cruisers and BCs, 2 seconds versus elite cruisers, and 1-3 seconds versus frigates.

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