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Warfare & Tactics

 
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why are people saying Fraction warfare is broken?

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Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#201 - 2014-05-25 13:55:26 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
What the changes do is make offensive plexing a much more time/effort consuming affair. Therefore less desirable for an alt farmer they will constantly have to warp in their 'main' to clear the plex. The npc's RESPAWN!

D-plexing hasn't changed from what I can see and if you are at a high teir it probably will still be worth d-plexing with an alt afk, if you are into that kinda of douchyness (it is so a word!)

So it will take longer to offensive plex now but there also large plexes in every system now so the overall time to vuln a system should stay the same. However if you want to do it with any efficiency you will need to bring different sized ships for the respective sized plex to beat the tanks of the npc spawns.

Sounds like a win win to me. Twisted



If the proposed changes are indeed what have been discussed here...this will be a good step in the right direction.

I have never had an issue with defensive plexing or mission farming. The rub has always been with noob alts offensive plexing and thereby affecting station docking (once flipped). The idea that a few-day old toon can have such an influence has always been the issue. Now, it looks like that won't be the case.

CCP, imho, put the cart in front of the horse when they made the station/occupancy changes before truly fixing plexing. Hopefully this is the answer we have been wanting/looking for.
Voi Lutois
Space Men
#202 - 2014-05-25 16:48:50 UTC
Rahelis wrote:

But a large unrestricted plex will be of absoluttly no worth.
A restriceted BC plex would bring BCs on field in an instance.
As I lived in eha in cal mil we attacked oics next door and fought 3 to 4 times in a row in BCs....
So the game mechanic problems are quite clear.
Low sec should be about gate and plex combat.
So good logic dictates that there should be plexes for every ship size, from noob frig to BS.


Would be nice if they brought back the old large/major that was gated for BCs and down again, had a lot of fun brawls in them.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#203 - 2014-05-25 17:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
Voi Lutois wrote:
Rahelis wrote:

But a large unrestricted plex will be of absoluttly no worth.
A restriceted BC plex would bring BCs on field in an instance.
As I lived in eha in cal mil we attacked oics next door and fought 3 to 4 times in a row in BCs....
So the game mechanic problems are quite clear.
Low sec should be about gate and plex combat.
So good logic dictates that there should be plexes for every ship size, from noob frig to BS.


Would be nice if they brought back the old large/major that was gated for BCs and down again, had a lot of fun brawls in them.

just send a mail to the csm dj funkybacon and ask him for the restricteds! AND the unrestricteds! and post on the forums!

everybody who wants it. send him a message! the large bc plex bring it back AND the unrestricted!

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#204 - 2014-05-25 20:31:14 UTC
Cromwell Savage wrote:

If the proposed changes are indeed what have been discussed here...this will be a good step in the right direction.

I have never had an issue with defensive plexing or mission farming. The rub has always been with noob alts offensive plexing and thereby affecting station docking (once flipped). The idea that a few-day old toon can have such an influence has always been the issue. Now, it looks like that won't be the case.

CCP, imho, put the cart in front of the horse when they made the station/occupancy changes before truly fixing plexing. Hopefully this is the answer we have been wanting/looking for.


The first 6 months after inferno changed the face of FW there were no farmer in FW (Apart from mission farmers) Then CCP handed plexing to the 1 day alts with the stupid single useless npc's

These changes are step back and forwards at the same time however they will pretty much mainly affect the farming toon and not the guys who actually want to FW \o/

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#205 - 2014-05-25 21:06:11 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:

If the proposed changes are indeed what have been discussed here...this will be a good step in the right direction.

I have never had an issue with defensive plexing or mission farming. The rub has always been with noob alts offensive plexing and thereby affecting station docking (once flipped). The idea that a few-day old toon can have such an influence has always been the issue. Now, it looks like that won't be the case.

CCP, imho, put the cart in front of the horse when they made the station/occupancy changes before truly fixing plexing. Hopefully this is the answer we have been wanting/looking for.


The first 6 months after inferno changed the face of FW there were no farmer in FW (Apart from mission farmers) Then CCP handed plexing to the 1 day alts with the stupid single useless npc's

These changes are step back and forwards at the same time however they will pretty much mainly affect the farming toon and not the guys who actually want to FW \o/


Yeah.

I understand 'why' CCP made the initial changes to rats....as the Caldari NPC's were infinitely out of balance with other races. Trying to PvP and tank rats was pretty much a no-go solo/small gang. Now all they pretty much do is km whore Evil which was good for PvP but even better for noob farming alts...

Let's hope the second/third order effects of these changes aren't as soul crushing as the last P
Rahelis
Doomheim
#206 - 2014-05-26 17:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rahelis
The problem is not mission farming or plex farming - it is the impact free isk has on the whole game.

The balance of rats of different races would be an easy to fix problem.

The main problems are:

-Free isk destroys eve's economy and thus warfare (free titans). Poor game mechanics make the free titans kill game content (bridges in low sec). This system is pure inflation and subdues fw to the broken null sec game design.

-Farmers wage and decide the faction war. This is a massive blow to content, as null bears now controll fw low sec. Fw pilots do not decide fw war, in fact the pirates are more active in the fw zone than the militas.

Imagine fw farmers would control null bear sov.

Let us see what happens with the changes - I would be nice to log into eve again and find something worth playing.

And if - if - low sec gets more attractive and even more pilots decide to live there - that would be a big plus to eve.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#207 - 2014-05-26 17:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Rahelis wrote:
The problem is not mission farming or plex farming - it is the impact free isk has on the whole game.

The balance of rats of different races would be an easy to fix problem.

The main problems are:

-Free isk destroys eve's economy and thus warfare (free titans). Poor game mechanics make the free titans kill game content (bridges in low sec). This system is pure inflation and subdues fw to the broken null sec game design.

-Farmers wage and decide the faction war. This is a massive blow to content, as null bears now controll fw low sec. Fw pilots do not decide fw war, in fact the pirates are more active in the fw zone than the militas.

Imagine fw farmers would control null bear sov.

Let us see what happens with the changes - I would be nice to log into eve again and find something worth playing.

And if - if - low sec gets more attractive and even more pilots decide to live there - that would be a big plus to eve.


Not a single isk is created or added to the economy from FW activites. Isk is actually removed from the game when using any LP store. Unless you count insurance, anyway.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2014-05-26 18:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not a single isk is created or added to the economy from FW activites. Isk is actually removed from the game when using any LP store. Unless you count insurance, anyway.

Yup, it's even a double ISK sink if you consider transaction taxes on the sale of LP store items.

Effect of FW LPs is to take ISK from missioners/ratters/incursioners/wormholers* that enjoy faction gear, destroy some of it, and transfer the rest to the militiamen (proud freedom fighters and farmers alike).

It basically makes the rest of the playerbase work for us! Lol


*Because blue books

This for a handy reference on ISK fawcets and sinks.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#209 - 2014-05-26 18:32:57 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not a single isk is created or added to the economy from FW activites. Isk is actually removed from the game when using any LP store. Unless you count insurance, anyway.

Yup, it's even a double ISK sink if you consider transaction taxes on the sale of LP store items.

Effect of FW LPs is to take ISK from missioners/ratters/incursioners/wormholers* that enjoy faction gear, destroy some of it, and transfer the rest to the militiamen (proud freedom fighters and farmers alike).

It basically makes the rest of the playerbase work for us! Lol


*Because blue books

This for a handy reference on ISK fawcets and sinks.


Which kind of explains why they don't want to mess with it that much. Grumble mumble.
Rahelis
Doomheim
#210 - 2014-05-27 07:35:11 UTC
Above statements are true in a specific setting, but what is isk?

In fact all isk is either created from sone sort of pve - that is the foundation of all eve economy. All pve is nothing put a players game time - usually wastest on some form of grinding and boring activity. Maybe eve can grow in a way that pve would be based on players interaction.

Eve is - historically, the second generation of ultima online - we are wittnesses and actors alike in a historical game development process.

The other source of isk is plex.

So isk is a mixed currency of players game time and plex - so real money. Money itself also has no value on itself today and is only a trade tool, that is completly virtual today.

With some fw missions and conversion of lp to isk you can easily made insane amounts of isk - many players use their isk to plex their toons.

Missioins create insane amounts of lp - so lp is a currency of its own, the only differnce is that lp can only be traded to ccp and not other players.

There is no sink of currency in an economy - there is only transformation.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#211 - 2014-05-27 08:08:00 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Above statements are true in a specific setting, but what is isk?

In fact all isk is either created from sone sort of pve - that is the foundation of all eve economy. All pve is nothing put a players game time - usually wastest on some form of grinding and boring activity. Maybe eve can grow in a way that pve would be based on players interaction.

Eve is - historically, the second generation of ultima online - we are wittnesses and actors alike in a historical game development process.

The other source of isk is plex.

So isk is a mixed currency of players game time and plex - so real money. Money itself also has no value on itself today and is only a trade tool, that is completly virtual today.

With some fw missions and conversion of lp to isk you can easily made insane amounts of isk - many players use their isk to plex their toons.

Missioins create insane amounts of lp - so lp is a currency of its own, the only differnce is that lp can only be traded to ccp and not other players.

There is no sink of currency in an economy - there is only transformation.

Question

What?

Roll

Lol

BTW, PLEX isn't a source of ISK either, it's an asset that players are willing to give up some of thier ISK for.

If everybody subbed their accounts (as I chose to do) PLEX would be worth exaclty zero ISK.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#212 - 2014-05-27 22:44:43 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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