Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Sacrificing tank/dps makes no difference at all to carriers/dreadnoughts/jump freighters/black ops jumping to stations.

As long as it works in your favor, no doubt about that.


So, you really think all the lazy "highsec pubby shitlords" or whatever you call them today, suddenly grow a brain and fit for tank instead of convenience? Now *that's* what I'd call a "wild assumption". I'm sure an analysis of fittings of ganked mining barges would support your argument *ahem*.

For the rest, see my reply to Herr Wilkus.

You'll notice I didn't try to make the assumption as to who will take what option - only point out the skewed EHP scale of said options. Of course, you probably did notice, and are trying to make a petty unjustified point anyway accentuated by sarcastic emotes and whatever it is you kids call them these days.

Mining barges can always find utility in expanding their cargohold or adding mining upgrade boosts and extending their time out in the fields or making themselves more time-efficient - freighters only having to carry a smaller courier have no utility in expanding their cargohold, something they can easily do when necessary, safely in dock. Apples and oranges.

For the rest, you still are not qualified to speak to the motivation of gankers.

We also spell it 'pubbie.'

I was obviously estimating some of the EHP values from memory - and was including cheap 5% hull implants because people actually use those - and they are very significant. Rubicon JFs are even harder to kill than I'd estimated. My numbers were surprisingly good, especially on future Orcas. (And for someone being so pedantic - you do a remarkably bad job of estimating the cost of a T2 Catalyst. Thats also from memory.)

My point remains, this represents a massive EHP buff which will allow traders to convey FAR larger values of cargo around highsec with negligible risk. (and the risk is already quite low)

Further, Catalysts aren't the 'gank ship' of choice for freighters simply because they require 3x larger coordinated fleets. Merely using 15 of them is 'bare bones' and increases the chance of something going wrong and failing the gank. Sure, some people gank empty freighters, a few others might use ISBoxed Catalysts. But Talos fleets of 7 or more are the gold standard, by far the most likely ganking 'for profit' scenario - so that is what I use.

No, I'm quite sure that some people will fail-fit. And carebears never fail to impress me in that regard.
But a random Retriever in a belt and a trader hauling billions in a freighter or Jump Freighter are two completely different things. 'Full' freighters tend to be full of low value items like tritanium - making the Tanked Freighter the most likely scenario for potential for high value gank targets. When profitting from trade, M^3 is not as important as ISK value. M^3 it merely limits the range of items you can trade in. When dealing in mid-range market items (vs bulk raw materials) that can lead to a gank attack - 130 m^3 is a hell of a lot. A radical expansion in safety and capabilities.

Even today, waiting for a 2-3 Billion ISK freighter to come along can take quite a long time. As Warr Akini said - keeping a large number of people on standby waiting for a target is easier said than done - when they could be doing other things. Why do low value freighters sometimes get ganked? Its the "eh, we have this fleet together, but its late so we might as well blow up something" effect.

Try this - sit in Uedama, Niarja, or Balle. Sit there scanning freighters until a 6-8 Billion ISK freighter comes along. How long do you think you can keep 20-25 or so Talos pilots sitting still waiting for that kind of target to come by? Because that is what it will take to threaten Kronos Jump Freighters.

And hell, Orcas haven't even gotten their balance pass yet. 450K EHP and 70K M^3 for a ship that costs only 350M? Sounds like a bargain when you consider it would take 15+ or so Taloses costing more than 1.5 Billion to kill.

P.S. Its just my way of telling Fozzie, "Bro, I've been there. I know how much carebear rage stings. Everytime miners send me hateful, threatening EVEmails, I cry a little inside. But Fozzie, you have to stay strong. We are doing it.....for them."

Orcas currently cost around 640M ISK.

Ack, bad typo. Build about 6 a month, I should know that......

That would rock for battle orcas;-)

So having to use cargohold expanders to achieve the same level of cargo is good. But it will make freighters even slower. Srsly, they are slow enough.

So now we'll be able to modify our freighters with 3 low slot modules, what's next, nitrous oxide and a big stereo? Slippery slope :P

Alright So I haven't decided if i want to train for a freighter or not yet, I know with the Nerfed cargo it would still suit all my needs but with 3 low slots as well? That is interesting. Anyone have any Idea how much tank say a Providence would get out of a T2 Damage Control and 2 RF Bulkheads ( T2 )??

Because the way I see it you need like 5-6 Talos to Gank a freighter as is, and like 15 catalysts ( Depends on system level of course ). So would adding the DC II and RFB II's really make a big enough difference to allow freighter pilots to carry more than 600m at a time without extreme risk of getting ganked by a catalyst gang? Or 800m to avoid a Talos Gang? Or is it not enough tank to really matter?