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Competitive Armor Incursions are BACK
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Sentenced 1989
#41 - 2014-05-23 22:22:32 UTC
Numba2 Special wrote:
My apologies, I didn't mean to come off as criticizing your incursion group. My intent was to refute the claim that a Paladin can mount a (local) tank that is comparable to a Vargur's in size and cost, both in terms of ISK and the number of slots dedicated to tank. To be honest, your group sounds like a lot of fun Smile


No need for apologies, just saying what we do and why :D

And yea, paladin will never be able to match vargur tank, not by using same number of slot and not even by using same amount of ISK

The Incursion Guild

Epic Arc Guide
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#42 - 2014-05-24 03:00:28 UTC
Sentenced 1989 wrote:
Numba2 Special wrote:
My apologies, I didn't mean to come off as criticizing your incursion group. My intent was to refute the claim that a Paladin can mount a (local) tank that is comparable to a Vargur's in size and cost, both in terms of ISK and the number of slots dedicated to tank. To be honest, your group sounds like a lot of fun Smile


No need for apologies, just saying what we do and why :D

And yea, paladin will never be able to match vargur tank, not by using same number of slot and not even by using same amount of ISK


Paladins are actually better for alot of dangerous pve content like wormholes and lowsec, cause you can fully T2 fit them and get way more damage and cap stability while hitting that glorious 2k tank that most sites require.

♞
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-05-25 13:11:44 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Only thing left to do is find an incursion group willing to try this.


Good luck with that.

From the practical pov of somebody that actually FCs armor in a bit more modern fashion:

- a full nestor setup is completely pointless for mwd AS or every modern HQ fleet, the reason for that is rep range and the distance between CQC and sniper anker
- mobility, since machs are a lot quicker in position and you can't cover that range till a nestor gets there
- you would lose far to much logistic on a nestor disconnect, you would have to wait ages if one disconnects or leaves because it is a very uncommon ship to fly compared to normal logis.
- since you have no redundancy on grid with the logis you can't activate gates early with machs in contests(where scimis just follow and can handle the machs till the rest of the logis are in the next pocket), you always have to wait till all logis come to the gate
- you would always have to wait on a gate to cap up people that are in late and cap out during moveing to the next gate(what can be easy done with basis or guardians, the LC just changes the cap chain quick or caps up a logi with a DPS hull in the meantime)
- lack of tracking link range what limits the options a lot
- if you trust your hole logistics on 1-2 ship(s) that has to cap it up, then get ready to for some epic moments when on of this hulls disconnects and you lose 100% of your tank in the site at once
- you can do AS with 3 armor/shield logis already(we even managed to hold the hole fleet together with just 2 scimis in the last pocket of a NCN after the 3. logi disconnected) and 6 are enough for HQ fleets(the extra 2-4 are buffer for disconnects or working with slow logis).
- you will never relay on a uncommon and expensive implant set for dps pilots it handicaps the pilot if he flys something else(since this is often the case with people that fly very good setups and implants), if this pilots disconnects or logs out, good luck finding a new paladin pilot with a full HG Talisman set and that exact setup What?

This is from somebody that owns a nestor(no cap chain with 6 links, 6 RR, 3 DDAs fitted) and has it on grid nearly every day as logi in his armor Inc fleets...

Btw nobody will field expensive armor setups for the slower site time than shield channels can offer and armor is not competitive in HQ sites(by the reasons given on the last 2 pages) and if you can't be competitive, you can't hold high skilled pilots and the good hulls for your fleet(that simply will fly for TVP or ISN).
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#44 - 2014-05-25 16:29:29 UTC
Jill Antaris wrote:

- you can do AS with 3 armor/shield logis already(we even managed to hold the hole fleet together with just 2 scimis in the last pocket of a NCN after the 3. logi disconnected) and 6 are enough for HQ fleets(the extra 2-4 are buffer for disconnects or working with slow logis).

With the higher resist profile of WTM and TVP over ISN and other shiny channels, running with only known high quality logi, it is just possible to run any site with 4, though in a TCRC, you had better have every DPS doing their thing as the logi are 100-150 rep/s below the DPS initially, and late broadcasts go from possibly dying to likely dying, especially if someone caps out.

This said, when you can run 35 DPS on grid with 2 mod, 1 rig tank and only 5 logi, the site times will be epic.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Cattiva daSilva
one stop fleetshop
#45 - 2014-05-25 21:25:04 UTC
i love how ya all are forgeting that for armor you can use slaves
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#46 - 2014-05-26 03:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Interesting,

Cant comment further on fleet setup because i simply don't know much about armor.

Few notes.

TP helps everyone not just your team so thanks for thinking about everybody your a champ.

Pali can disco it usualy happens when you watched other screen and didn't notice ship you needed to rep get lowish on armor,doesn't mean it will die but it might.

Machariel with 2 tc is a sad panda.

Fleet without OP tracking links are sad pandas.

DPS ship using mwd to hack drop ore is a panda.

Imo.

Back to anime watching.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
FunGu Arsten
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2014-05-26 06:29:38 UTC
What good are slavez when you need sustained dps-tank, the option isnt available.. If i had armorcrystals id be a happy brosef!
And +1 to mina!j
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-05-27 14:45:57 UTC
Cattiva daSilva wrote:
i love how ya all are forgeting that for armor you can use slaves


Slaves are useless if you dont have enough reps. All they do is postpone the time till your shiny ship pops.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#49 - 2014-05-27 19:22:34 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Cattiva daSilva wrote:
i love how ya all are forgeting that for armor you can use slaves


Slaves are useless if you dont have enough reps. All they do is postpone the time till your shiny ship pops.


Not quite true. they allow you a larger buffer, which gives you more time to reduce the incoming DPS to something do have enough reps for and then begin to top ships back up. Still not as important as higher resist profiles, more DPS and generally faster ships for HQs, and VGs can be repped by the average shiny shield fleets drones at need, so yeah.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
FunGu Arsten
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2014-05-28 07:38:40 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Cattiva daSilva wrote:
i love how ya all are forgeting that for armor you can use slaves


Slaves are useless if you dont have enough reps. All they do is postpone the time till your shiny ship pops.


Not quite true. they allow you a larger buffer, which gives you more time to reduce the incoming DPS to something do have enough reps for and then begin to top ships back up. Still not as important as higher resist profiles, more DPS and generally faster ships for HQs, and VGs can be repped by the average shiny shield fleets drones at need, so yeah.


-With a crystal set you would are able to rep with a medium shield booster+ invul+fleetbooster/ without crystalsyou need a large or xlarge shield booster for some waves. The set makes a world of difference!
And when you fly a bs, the buffer is more then enough for vgs.

At the moment i run paladins, ill mostlikely put the warpspeed set in.. Nothing else would make a decent difference, but what good is this when someone in fleet warps slower:p
- more options would be great
De ZuuuberrMan
Wasted and Still Mining
#51 - 2014-05-28 12:06:12 UTC
sounds like something youd shield tank, c+ effort will read again
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-05-28 14:37:01 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Cattiva daSilva wrote:
i love how ya all are forgeting that for armor you can use slaves


Slaves are useless if you dont have enough reps. All they do is postpone the time till your shiny ship pops.


Not quite true. they allow you a larger buffer, which gives you more time to reduce the incoming DPS to something do have enough reps for and then begin to top ships back up. Still not as important as higher resist profiles, more DPS and generally faster ships for HQs, and VGs can be repped by the average shiny shield fleets drones at need, so yeah.


Unfortunately, use Slaves too often and they become a crutch, not a helper.
FunGu Arsten
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2014-05-28 14:45:55 UTC
De ZuuuberrMan wrote:
sounds like something youd shield tank, c+ effort will read again


Medshield booster+invul+crystals+fleet booster on a vargur ofcourse:p
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