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PvP - Solo/Small Gang - Frig/Destroyer Fit - Weapons system to choose?
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Selune Starlight
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-05-26 08:21:13 UTC
Hallo o7,
I returned to EVE after a year and a half and decided to do PvP. I have no experience with PvP setups.

Before, I stopped playing, I had trained almost all of my support skills to 4/5 and projectile weapons to T2 as well. Right now, I am training my Armor Tanking/EWAR skills to max. For further reference, my skills are : http://eveboard.com/pilot/Selune_Starlight.

Recently, I read in the forums that projectile weapons + Minnie ships are not good at PvP anymore - especially AC's with damage projection - is that true? Also, I heard that Railguns are OP'ed now? Can someone please explain the changes and which weapon system is top for PvP at the small, medium and large categories?

Secondly, can someone please post frigate/destroyer fits using different weapon systems for Solo and Small Gang PvP? I want to get an idea of what kind of ships/modules I need to use to match up to other PvP'ers equipment-wise. My alt is an excellent missioner so ISK should not be that much of a problem.

Thank you in advance for all your help! :)
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2014-05-26 08:52:30 UTC
Some training suggestions:

Repair Systems (V, Small Ancillary Armor Repairer is a thing on solo frigs, or stick to shield ships)
Thermodynamics (IV, you overheat a lot in solo/small gang, and by a lot I mean all the time)
Propulsion Jamming (IV, for cap usage)
Your Chosen Racial Frig to V (this is a must basically)
Your Chosen Racial Sensor Compensation to V (helps a ton against ECM drones)
Rigging Skills (IV, to reduce the drawbacks that can be a pita on frigs)

Advanced Weapon Upgrades is a longish train, but it will help with tight fits. I'd recommend Genolutions 1-2 in any case.

Always take claims such as "projectiles suck" on the forums with a ton of salt, in reality the races are really well balanced and you should really stick to what you like and focus on those skills and players skills to utilize their style to max potential. Rails are better than they used to be, not OP as earlier they were nothing more than useless pile of crap.

T2 equipment for tank and guns is a good minimum level, but a lot of frigate fits make heavy use of meta 3-4 prop & tackle mods due to fitting and overheating.

Dessies are kind of sketchy for solo and small gang, I'd stick to T1/faction frigates and assault frigates.

Move to Black Rise for amazing 24/7 access to small ship PVP with tons of solo fun.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2014-05-26 12:03:06 UTC
Most combat frigs are viable really.. Only big exceptions being the Punisher and.. Well with the recent rifter buff i guess the Punisher is the only trash tier frigate.

All the dessies are good.. Some are harder to use than others but none of them are bad.

For cruisers i would go with gallente or caldari.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#4 - 2014-05-26 13:26:18 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Most combat frigs are viable really.. Only big exceptions being the Punisher and.. Well with the recent rifter buff i guess the Punisher is the only trash tier frigate.

All the dessies are good.. Some are harder to use than others but none of them are bad.

For cruisers i would go with gallente or caldari.


Yeah it's really sad about the Punisher, 2 mid slot frigs are just crappy for solo unless they are slicers. Crusaders can be viable for solo in nullsec despite it's 2 mids but that's mainly because everyone runs mwd in null and your targets will be interceptors so people disengaging when they're losing is less likely because the fights are over so quick, using a Crusader in lowsec will likely end badly. However the Punisher is decent for frig gangs where other people will carry webs and the Punisher has decent dps as well as great tank so it will be the last thing people shoot.

That aside, what Garviel says is definitely true though, all T1 and faction combat frigs are viable and can excel at different things. My personal favourites are Firetail, Breacher, Comet and Tristan. If you want specific fits I can recommend some.
kurage87
EVE University
Ivy League
#5 - 2014-05-26 15:31:50 UTC
Coercer probably the most popular solo dessy, Thrasher for small gang. Of the T1 obviously.

Projectiles aren't bad, just minnie are no longer OP. Weapons and hulls are still good.

Only weapon system I wouldn't use on anything would be beam lasers.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2014-05-26 16:48:11 UTC
kurage87 wrote:
Coercer probably the most popular solo dessy, Thrasher for small gang. Of the T1 obviously.

Projectiles aren't bad, just minnie are no longer OP. Weapons and hulls are still good.

Only weapon system I wouldn't use on anything would be beam lasers.


TBH it was the ships that were the problem more than AC's..

A hurricane's fitting was designed with arties in mind.. Which meant that if you fit AC's on it you could fit the entire god damn world on it.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-05-26 18:06:07 UTC
Don't forget the talwar swarm doctrines. They make a fun little fleet option for the Jr fc and pilot corps.

I'd say they are steadily replacing the thrasher for the great gang dessy title. I wish I could say the same for the baby arbiter (dragoon) but alas it just isn't to be. :(
kurage87
EVE University
Ivy League
#8 - 2014-05-26 22:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: kurage87
Froggy Storm wrote:
Don't forget the talwar swarm doctrines. They make a fun little fleet option for the Jr fc and pilot corps.

I'd say they are steadily replacing the thrasher for the great gang dessy title. I wish I could say the same for the baby arbiter (dragoon) but alas it just isn't to be. :(

Yeah Talwar are great for blob/swarm, don't have to care about range and can't miss along with inty style MWD. Very low newbro friendly barrier to entry in both skills and player ability.

But, OP asked about solo/small gang.

Thrasher so good because 1600 dmg volley/alpha each from your 3-6 man gang is absolutely terrifying for frigs and dessies. Edit: Cruisers, too, have to step lightly.

Coercer good for solo because scorch and MF instant switching gives great adaptability, a sniper and brawler in one.
Bearded Forum Alt
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-05-27 06:29:28 UTC
I'll just repeat that the Rifter is fine, if a bit hard to use solo these days, as it isn't very specialized. The TD slasher is easier to solo in, even if it is a bit squishy.

The Breacher is surprisingly wonderful.

But yes, every race has a nice selection of t1 frigates, now, and weapon systems are pretty well balanced. You will see a lot of suggestions leaning towards scram-kiting and proper kiting fits, because they are much easier to retreat in, if things are going badly.

ACs require more forethought and planning, as well as plan-adjustment during the fight. Versatility is their weakness, as well as their strength, if that makes sense. It's a lot easier to just keep people in rocket range, and let those rockets fly until someone explodes. But really, yes, try stuff out and just go with what you like. There are almost no bad choices. God help you if you really like the punisher, though.

It's the same story with destroyers and cruisers. Very few people fly anything bigger than cruisers in small gang/solo pvp, because anything bigger is just calling down thunder in lowsec.

If you give us more specifics about what ships you are interested in flying, we can direct you towards fits and such.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2014-05-27 09:13:43 UTC
The "Buzzsaw" Thrasher has always been a favorite of mine.

200mm Autocannons
Rocket Launcher OR Energy Neut

MWD
Warp Scrambler
Medium Shield Extender OR Ewar of choice

Damage Control
Gyrostab OR 400mm plate

2 tanking rigs of choice
1 damage rig


Basically you overload everything and charge right in. Have some Barrage handy to take out kiters.
It may not deal as much damage as a Catalyst or Algos... but it has better speed, agility, and deals more consistant damage.

How did you Veterans start?
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#11 - 2014-05-27 11:32:52 UTC
kurage87 wrote:
Coercer probably the most popular solo dessy, Thrasher for small gang. Of the T1 obviously.

Projectiles aren't bad, just minnie are no longer OP. Weapons and hulls are still good.

Only weapon system I wouldn't use on anything would be beam lasers.


No, projectiles are bad. The 'problem hulls' such as the Cane have been curb-stomped by teiricide and people still are too thick to. Laser are amazing right now, railguns also. I'm not a fan of light missiles but they fill a Niche and the Heretic is the best dictor in the game, bar none.

To the OP: Small artillery are good. Your damage application and range is in that beutiful minmatar mid-ground that AC's used to fill. They can easily out damage those annoying AB/Scram/Web/TD/Light missile ships and still apply damage to ships trying to brawl you. Literally 'Keep at range' and turn on your guns and most fights will go your way. Swoop in when you know you've won to land a scram and finish the fight.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#12 - 2014-05-27 11:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
ShahFluffers wrote:
The "Buzzsaw" Thrasher has always been a favorite of mine.

200mm Autocannons
Rocket Launcher OR Energy Neut

MWD
Warp Scrambler
Medium Shield Extender OR Ewar of choice

Damage Control
Gyrostab OR 400mm plate

2 tanking rigs of choice
1 damage rig


Basically you overload everything and charge right in. Have some Barrage handy to take out kiters.
It may not deal as much damage as a Catalyst or Algos... but it has better speed, agility, and deals more consistant damage.


No one fights a thrasher solo in a frig. Thats the point. People know it's got crazy damage and a decent buffer and can't be neuted into submission. It's the poster child for ships that terrible PVP'ers use because they don't know how to fly a more interesting ship.

Also, you get more fight flying unusual hulls. A thrasher is a 2 trick pony. Arty+Kite or AC's and face-melt.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#13 - 2014-05-27 15:32:38 UTC
LML Heretic is hands down one of the best solo / smallgang ships out there currently. I would suggest using it.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#14 - 2014-05-27 16:59:16 UTC
Chessur wrote:
LML Heretic is hands down one of the best solo / smallgang ships out there currently. I would suggest using it.


I always do more damage than i think i have when i fly it. Plus i'm 40KM away and not dieing in-between dropping bubbles. I bought Sabre's and now want rid of them, the single heretic i've bought this year was better in every way and lasted longer than my Sabre's/Catalysts.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#15 - 2014-05-27 17:43:29 UTC
The Corax is one of the best light missile hulls in the game. It's explosion velocity bonus, four mids, two lows, and three rig slots allow some insane fits based around damage application. My current fit gets:

1367 alpha faction scourge lights. 482 explosion velocity. 18.2 explosion radius. 203 DPS unheated.
1669 alpha Scourge Fury. 405 explosion velocity. 31.5 explosion radius. 248 DPS unheated.
1335 alpha non-Scourge Fury. Same explosion velocity and explosion radius as above. 199 DPS unheated.

Add two overheated target painters to the above. Twisted
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#16 - 2014-05-27 17:46:45 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Corax is one of the best light missile hulls in the game. It's explosion velocity bonus, four mids, two lows, and three rig slots allow some insane fits based around damage application. My current fit gets:

1367 alpha faction scourge lights. 482 explosion velocity. 18.2 explosion radius. 203 DPS unheated.
1669 alpha Scourge Fury. 405 explosion velocity. 31.5 explosion radius. 248 DPS unheated.
1335 alpha non-Scourge Fury. Same explosion velocity and explosion radius as above. 199 DPS unheated.

Add two overheated target painters to the above. Twisted


Corax is too slow to be viable. It falls flat on its face when compared to the heretic.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2014-05-27 17:53:02 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Corax is one of the best light missile hulls in the game. It's explosion velocity bonus, four mids, two lows, and three rig slots allow some insane fits based around damage application. My current fit gets:

1367 alpha faction scourge lights. 482 explosion velocity. 18.2 explosion radius. 203 DPS unheated.
1669 alpha Scourge Fury. 405 explosion velocity. 31.5 explosion radius. 248 DPS unheated.
1335 alpha non-Scourge Fury. Same explosion velocity and explosion radius as above. 199 DPS unheated.

Add two overheated target painters to the above. Twisted


Corax is too slow to be viable. It falls flat on its face when compared to the heretic.


True. But in the world of FW people run from Heretics whereas the Corax is underestimated again and again. Also - lots of skirmish linked kitey fits think they are immune to missiles and I get some personal satisfaction at the comments in local when I two shot them.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#18 - 2014-05-27 18:29:05 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Corax is one of the best light missile hulls in the game. It's explosion velocity bonus, four mids, two lows, and three rig slots allow some insane fits based around damage application. My current fit gets:

1367 alpha faction scourge lights. 482 explosion velocity. 18.2 explosion radius. 203 DPS unheated.
1669 alpha Scourge Fury. 405 explosion velocity. 31.5 explosion radius. 248 DPS unheated.
1335 alpha non-Scourge Fury. Same explosion velocity and explosion radius as above. 199 DPS unheated.

Add two overheated target painters to the above. Twisted


Corax is too slow to be viable. It falls flat on its face when compared to the heretic.


True. But in the world of FW people run from Heretics whereas the Corax is underestimated again and again. Also - lots of skirmish linked kitey fits think they are immune to missiles and I get some personal satisfaction at the comments in local when I two shot them.


This is true. Application bonus to light missiles is EXTREAMLY powerful. And yes, people will more likely engage a corax over a heretic every time.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#19 - 2014-05-27 18:31:04 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:


No one fights a thrasher solo in a frig. Thats the point. People know it's got crazy damage and a decent buffer and can't be neuted into submission. It's the poster child for ships that terrible PVP'ers use because they don't know how to fly a more interesting ship.

Also, you get more fight flying unusual hulls. A thrasher is a 2 trick pony. Arty+Kite or AC's and face-melt.


Almost all the PVPers I know will engage a solo thrasher in a T1 frig.

JUSTK is recruiting
Bearded Forum Alt
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-05-27 19:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bearded Forum Alt
Thanatos Marathon wrote:

Almost all the PVPers I know will engage a solo thrasher in a T1 frig.


This, honestly. AC Thrasher is my solo coffin. It looks good on paper, but doesn't perform very well in the field. It's just too slow and not very tanky for a brawler, even if the damage output is pretty good. I'll gleefully engage an AC thrasher in almost any frig.

Arty thrasher is much better. Maybe I'm just bad.