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CSM approved slots for Freighters?

First post
Author
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1 - 2014-05-22 16:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Instead of rigs, seriously? I'm disappointed.

Rigs provide an interesting decision making game, and taking responsibility for those decisions, as rigs are expensive and permanent. On the other hand, refitting modules is no-brainer, just click-drag-click-drag-click-drag, literally.

Let's look at Fozzie's justification: "As the only classes to have rig slots alone with no fitting slots, Freighters and Jump Freighters would have allowed customization towards a player's most common use cases, but would still lack the very important ability to adjust fittings in response to changing needs and environments."
Dont you see the flaw in that logic? Let me show you:
"As the only classes to have fitting slots alone with no rig slots, Freighters and Jump Freighters would have allowed not only adjustment of fitting, but total repurposing, with zero efforts."
That degree of flexibility is not even achieved by T3 ships, yet. But here, we're talking about T1 Freighters, and "specialized" T2 DFs.

The difference between "adjustment" and "repurposing" is crucial. If I put 3x trimarks on my battleship, it is doomed to be passive armor tanked. I can choose to fit more tank or DPS depending on ~environments~ but god forbid if I put a shield booster and go ratting.

Also, those awkward new modules... facepalm.
Fuel conservators, because we need even more capital projection.
Warp accelerators, useless literally for everything other than Freighters.

So once again, a very poor start for this CSM, in my not so humble opinion.
You had a chance to add some interesting contents to the game, but instead added some more click-drag-click-drag-click-drag.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-05-22 17:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
So, how much isk did you lose speculating on rigs, then?

e: So a slightly serious point, too.

Quote:
The difference between "adjustment" and "repurposing" is crucial. If I put 3x trimarks on my battleship, it is doomed to be passive armor tanked. I can choose to fit more tank or DPS depending on ~environments~ but god forbid if I put a shield booster and go ratting.


So a slightly serious point as well.

First, if you put trimarks on your battleship, it's clearly not a shield tanking battleship, so let's throw "god forbid I put a shield booster on it" out as the red herring that it is.

Second, by virtue of having a full range of fitting slots, you wind up penalized far less for having the wrong rigs for a fit than you would with a freighter, which only has rigs. A better comparison is taking your trimark fit pvp battleship and putting an active tank on it, or a pve fit. Optimal? No. Workable? Yes. So flip your "unparalleled flexibility" argument around - by being the only ship class in the game with only rigs slots, they'd have had unparalleled rigidity.


But, back to the important point... how much did you lose?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2014-05-22 17:21:45 UTC
What we did was listen to the well reasoned feedback from the community, which was pretty overwhelmingly negative for how it was done, rather than it was being done at all (which was mostly positive, once the hyperbole was stripped away)

The negativity was, primarily, from 2 aspects:
The inflexibility.
The cost involved to regain current abilities.

The first one, personally, wasn't particularly compelling. I can understand the arguments, I just didn't find them particularly strong.
The second one, however, was.

If it had been a minor drop, or a minor cost, then sure. But at, for a freighter, between a fifth and two thirds the price of the ship, it was very compelling, and something I'd failed to think about. (I don't buy many capital rigs, after all)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#4 - 2014-05-22 17:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
mynnna wrote:
if you put trimarks on your battleship, it's clearly not a shield tanking battleship

Like Machariel, right?

mynnna wrote:
So flip your "unparalleled flexibility" argument around - by being the only ship class in the game with only rigs slots, they'd have had unparalleled rigidity.

It's been with Freighter since ever. Was quite workable, but... boring.

mynnna wrote:
But, back to the important point... how much did you lose?

Did they spike? Damn, I'm slow.
I invest in cheap faction crap. Hope one day Fozzie will rebalance it and I'll become astoundingly rich.

Steve Ronuken wrote:
The cost involved to regain current abilities.

Free pre-fit rigs on patch day. I've witnessed even more generous presents from CCP.
Yet according to Fozzie, that was not a significant driving stimulus, only flexibility.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-23 03:12:40 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
mynnna wrote:
if you put trimarks on your battleship, it's clearly not a shield tanking battleship

Like Machariel, right?

You have a point there technically but I know you know what I mean.

Skia Aumer wrote:
mynnna wrote:
So flip your "unparalleled flexibility" argument around - by being the only ship class in the game with only rigs slots, they'd have had unparalleled rigidity.

It's been with Freighter since ever. Was quite workable, but... boring.

Fortunately we're discussing how they are going to be, not how they were.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-05-23 04:30:34 UTC
Yes, I prefer slots to rigs. More options, more chances to change depending on the circumstances. Rigs are expensive and not often changed as a result of the 'destroy when removing' [Yee gods I would love a skill that gave me even a % chance to remove rigs successfully]

So you can choose, most folks will choose huge and thin but they will have made a choice and it will be one that they can change if circumstances change.

Yup, I like it

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

DJ FunkyBacon
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc.
Monkeys with Guns.
#7 - 2014-05-23 04:35:29 UTC
Slots are definitely preferable to rigs. they allow flexibility for a professional space trucker to tweak his loadout for the job he or she is taking on, and doesn't leave him/her pinned to a billion isk fitting that he/she would never be able to justify changing due to the profit loss.

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corebloodbrothers
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-05-27 12:53:02 UTC
I am excited about the freigther changes as the moved because of public and csm inteferance, i would argue we off to a great start with this, and some other dev blogs hinting at upcomming things where we are involved.