Missions & Complexes

Incursions should be in low/null sec !

There are already Incursions there!

Why ?
isks making without risk = inflation
Have any numbers to prove this?

high isks/hour in empire = less pve'ers in low/null/wh
No, the pvp'ers are still there, easy PVE targets not so much.

Like Lvl5 missions, the incursions should be moved in a more dangerous place.

Seems that you located the Lvl 5 missioners, so working as intended i guess.


That's all.

Geez ! It's PVE = totaly predictible ! There is no risk when you can anticipate it.



Yup. If not, the prices will sky rocket.



That's i call trolling !

Oh look, its another idiot who looked at incursions and got jelous, and therefore think they should be nerfed. However, I will say just 1 thing - Working As Intended.

You see, when CCP designed incursions, they WANTED THEM TO PAY MORE. Why? Because its the first PvE content in eve that REQUIRES players to work together, while being easily accessible to everyone. And it was specifically stated at their inception that players working together should get paid more than players working solo. As to how much it pays - lets actually look at the cold, hard facts before tossing out blanket accusations.

PvE areas:
Incursions
C5/C6 WH's
C4 and below WH's
Mission Running
nullsec anomalies

We'll ignore exploration, because that pays like the lottery, not isk/hour, and is highly dependant on luck for good payouts.

So, incursions. Incursions in a highend fleet, minimum of a bil or so spend on every non-logi ship, when not competing for sites can finish a site every 3 to 5 minutes. To be competitive, fleets nowadays run with 11 characters on grid, which means payouts are about 9.5mil per site. This means that theoretically, a highend fleet can pull in between 114 and 195mil/hour. In low/null, this jumps up to 160 to 275mil/hour. In low/null, that theoretical rate is possible as long as you don't get into a shooting war with other fleets. Which if its null space that you control, is entirely possible - in lowsec its a bit riskier... but an incursion fleet also doubles quite well as a very nice PvP fleet as long as everyone remembered to fit a point. In highsec however, it is only really possible in a pocket - there is competition, there are fleets completing sites and not leaving them so no new sites spawn, etc. There are any number of little ways that cut off a minute here, a minute there, and leave you pulling in around that 100mil/hour figure. Note, this is with 1bil/ship minimum - less than that and you are pulling in significantly less isk, not only due to completing sites slower, but also due to the better fleets coming and stealing your sites. Lastly, this is ignoring the amount of time it takes a fleet to form up/you to get into a fleet, get to the incursion, etc.

Moving on to the next point - C5/C6 wormholes. These are different from C4 and below wormholes because you can escalate them. Which means that a quad escalation in a C5 takes it from being around 250mil/site to 1.5bil per site. 4 characters can complete a quad escalation in about an hour and a half, which puts them solidly at 250mil/hour. 10 characters can complete it in about half an hour - putting you solidly at 300mil/hour. Again, this is group work, and note that if you know what you are doing, you are pulling in significantly more isk than in incursions. Now without escalation, a C5 site can be completed in about 30 minutes by 4 characters for 250mil. Which puts it at about 125mil/hour - competitive with highsec incursions. Note, these are with people putting in 1 bil per ship minimum, just like in highsec, which means that if you are putting in less you are going to be pulling in less. And if you know what you are doing, the risk of loosing ships in a WH should be minimal - just make sure you have someone with a deepspace probe out to see any new signatures, and either collapse or critical your static to make sure no one comes in. Tada - ratting in perfect safety.

C4 and below sites can be completed by 1-2 characters, and once again, if you are heavily investing in your ship, should bring in about 100mil/hour. Note, thats 100mil/hour of solo, or 2-3 people working together. Which makes it competitive with incursions, but you don't have to fleet up with strangers, find a fleet, etc. As for finding new statics, thats just like finding new fleets in an incursion, or moving to a new incursion. If you are one of the idiots without a static to this type of space, thats just bad planning on your part.

Now them, moving on to mission running. There are people pulling in 100+mil/hour running missions. But for someone who doesn't pull great LP store profits, but is spending 1+bil on their ship, they are generally pulling in around 60mil/hour. Of course, they can pull this from the moment they log on - they don't have to go to a new incursion, don't have to find a new WH, etc. So 60mil/hour is pretty consistent.

Lastly, on to nullsec space. With the new buff to anomalies, someone who isn't running sanctums, but is instead running hubs (aka, something available in most of null) should be pulling in around 30mil/hour in a drake. I'm still figuring out how best to roll with them and am pulling in 45mil/hour in an unpimped tengu. Now, if I were to bump by dps up by hopping into a 1+bil ship, I should be able to at least double my dps, thereby doubling my income. Which would put me at 90mil/hour. Which while it isn't running incursions in highsec, its pretty damn close, and it is solo work.

So what does this all go to show? That everything is working as intended. With similar isk investments, group work pays better than solo, and more dangerous space pays better than highsec, but group work in highsec pays better than solo in null/WH space.

So if you are upset with how much your making in space that is "more dangerous"... why should you make more with less isk investment? And personally, I see no issue with taking 1+bil ships into null if you are part of a big alliance, or are teamed up with a big alliance. You see, there are these things called intel channels, so you know when to dock up and grab your PvP ship to kick roamers out and stop ratting. If you aren't part of a big alliance - well, thats your problem then, isn't it?

-Arazel

Let me get this straight

Incursions produce a lot of isk

You have access to Incursions, by getting your ass out there.

You demand Inscursions be nerfed.

You refuse to participate, because obviously you choose not to roll in isk.

They give you easy money, but you don't want it.

And this is a problem CCP needs to fix? Because you don't want the easy money?

No, incursions are fine. Its your problem that you are not making the isk, because you refuse to go do them.

Dude... duuuuude .... really dude? I could write a 5 page thread about this all by myself.
Actually I could just link to the discussions I've had for the past 3 months about this subject, but you wouldn't read it anyway.
So instead I will just say this.

You are unaware of many factors in EVE and how cause/effect is working. Your view is very subjective without any empiric evidence and yet you ask to change something of which you have no clue about.
I think this qualifies as me calling you a fool.

You sir, are a fool.

No. Moon goo and Sanctums should be moved to highsec.

Oooooh yes, yes, yes .... please :-)

... damn! there goes that stutter agin. sorry.

Sure, just make it so we can shoot whoever in highsec while we're at it, and I'm all for it.

My 3 bil paladin gone up in flames due to incompetent newguy logi pilot begs to differ ....

Even if it aint incursion gankers there is allways the danger of crappy pilots. That combined with more agressive and dps happy rats completely makes up for the better isk gain and justifies high sec incursions.

Whats this, some more whine from people who clearly don't incursion?

One bad logi pilot and there goes your 1bil-3bil dollar ship.