These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What happened to the stuff Incarna was supposed to bring?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2014-05-26 18:59:21 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Microtransactions were an afterthought to WiS.

Microtransactions are not an afterthought for WiS. The riots were a perfect storm resulting from many different objections to Incarna (as noted by Tippia), of course.. but these "microtransactions" were intended (as the evidence shows) and they did ignite some tempers.

I think it's important not to gloss over details.

Microtransactions could be two things:
A. A pair of $1000 jeans that adds no advantage to the game, and does not prevent someone from performing tasks in the game
B. Something sold to the player that gives him an in-game advantage, or as a tax for basic tasks (ie: jumping a gate)

Many people think that "A" will lead to "B", and rightfully so.. if we get used to the idea that we can nickel and dime players for inconsequential stuff, somebody somewhere will ask the question: why not nickel and dime them on stuff that affects the game? A and B are not the same, but it's not crazy to imagine A becoming B.

Well, we've had "A" for a while (as Ramona points out). No $1000 jeans, but clothing costs AUR, which costs PLEX, which costs money. We haven't seen "B".

My point is, in some ways "A" is a good thing. One can argue that you have a segment of the EVE population who is willing to pay money to accessorize, this segment is a good thing for EVE in general. It makes these players happy and they play EVE. These players contribute inordinately to CCP's income from EVE (thus possibly decreasing the strain of sub price from the rest of EVE players). If these players want to do this, then why not? "A" will pay for itself, and much much more.

But I can understand the position of not giving any philosophical ground. If "A" becomes "B", it could have a drastic effect on EVE gameplay. These opposing viewpoints must in my opinion be in this thread as a counterpoint.. because the slippery slope of microtransactions destroying MMOs is not a new thing, or an uncommon thing.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Marsha Mallow
#302 - 2014-05-26 19:00:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
..

If you could summarise the WiS counterarguments like that it would be very helpful in a single post for relinkage purposes Blink

All I have so far (not very articulate because the ideas aren't)
- Summer of Rage was about everything but WiS [insert any of dozens of other complaints here]
- WiS can be developed with a skeleton Dev team - no, really. What do you mean they were made redundant?
- If avatar development is ignored, Star Citizen or Elite or urh Second Life will kill Eve (I've already paid them $$$$ etc)
- I have no idea why they shelved WoD, leaked images clearly showed a functional avatar. And the devs got 3000 kills.. and, yeh
- Fixing broken things isn't enough, we must have new (broken) things, preferably daily
- I can't identify with my spaceship as a roleplayer. I need an avatar. And latex clothing ~ For immersion~
- I have a serious gambling addiction and have never heard of EOH
- Gameplay focused avatar development like Legion/Dust/Valkyrie isn't what I had in mind.... *mumbling about bars*
- Eve is dying *something about subs/PCU/CSM voting*

Sorry it's a bit short but it's usually so feeble and forgettable, I do indeed immediately forget the 'reasoning'.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#303 - 2014-05-26 19:18:24 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
The core reason for the 2011 riots was not WiS, not even microtransactions themselves - It was the mention of selling golden ammo, better ships or mods through the NeX store. THAT caused the riots. Literally no one had a problem with there being microtransactions for Incarna.

Microtransactions were an afterthought to WiS. 2008's demos proved that handily imho. That said, i'd be willing to bet on there being a proper Incarna within the next 10 years - It's just a matter of time. There is still an untapped potential in EVE and avatars are right up there, right alongside Dust/Legion and Valkyrie, amongst other things. I fully expect a ground RTS style game to be developed at some point as well, if not directly implemented into the current EVE client to complement PI, amongst other things.


This is holocaust-denial level of madness. You're trying to convince people who were very literally there at the time, and the company that painfully went through it, that nothing happened.
Every single thing you said in this post is easily refuted by a couple of searches of the old threads, comments on articles being released about the riots, and elsewhere.

I still have literally no idea what you people are trying to achieve by making believe that no-one had a problem with the entire direction of the game, and that CCP abandoned millions in development cost, had Hilmar step down, fired 20% of their staff and went through a painful re-adjustment for no reason. Or, that the expansions afterwards that re-focussed on FiS weren't universally heralded as good.

WiS is dead. WoD being cancelled means that even any slight hope of the technology advancing and being ported into EvE when it's ready is dead. Let it go, you lost. EvE is about spaceships again and it's awesome.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#304 - 2014-05-26 19:24:32 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Tippia wrote:
..

If you could summarise the WiS counterarguments like that it would be very helpful in a single post for relinkage purposes Blink

All I have so far (not very articulate because the ideas aren't)
- Summer of Rage was about everything but WiS [insert any of dozens of other complaints here]
- WiS can be developed with a skeleton Dev team - no, really. What do you mean they were made redundant?
- If avatar development is ignored, Star Citizen or Elite or urh Second Life will kill Eve (I've already paid them $$$$ etc)
- I have no idea why they shelved WoD, leaked images clearly showed a functional avatar. And the devs got 3000 kills.. and, yeh
- Fixing broken things isn't enough, we must have new (broken) things, preferably daily
- I can't identify with my spaceship as a roleplayer. I need an avatar. And latex clothing ~ For immersion~
- I have a serious gambling addiction and have never heard of EOH
- Gameplay focused avatar development like Legion/Dust/Valkyrie isn't what I had in mind.... *mumbling about bars*
- Eve is dying *something about subs/PCU/CSM voting*

Sorry it's a bit short but it's usually so feeble and forgettable, I do indeed immediately forget the 'reasoning'.


The other WiS thread was a honey-pot of baiting pro-WiS guys into defending it's use as a sex-roleplay tool, it was pretty great "no we dont want a shooter in stations we want dress up dollies ... for reasons .. WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT REASONS ARE BAD!"
Some part of me wants it to happen, because the sheer volume of fun that can be had in STO from messing with those people is endless.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Marsha Mallow
#305 - 2014-05-26 19:40:03 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The other WiS thread was a honey-pot of baiting pro-WiS guys into defending it's use as a sex-roleplay tool, it was pretty great "no we dont want a shooter in stations we want dress up dollies ... for reasons .. WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT REASONS ARE BAD!"
Some part of me wants it to happen, because the sheer volume of fun that can be had in STO from messing with those people is endless.

There are only a small proportion of women ingame, and tbh I really like the shooty-shooty ones. But have very little interraction with the rping crowd, and I'd rather not abuse them beyond a level they can handle just for amusement. Some of this debate reeks of naivety.

I played Second Life for a bit (after Eve, and SWTOR) and it was both disturbing and hilarious. But I'd rather not see that garbage here. At the point the only person I spoke to in Second Life offered to take me to an orgy, buy me a stick on vagina, and asked me to call him "Master" things started to unravel pretty fast. I whipped my laptop to a friends house and four of us spent all night subtly taking the mickey (actually I'm pretty sure we violated the man's sanity way beyond what Detective Teg would find acceptable). Anyway, after a few hours of the most hilarious cyber orgies I've ever seen we collectively decided to tell him I was a guy. At which point he went nuts (actually I think he's still sending very annoyed mails).

If people aren't aware this would be a daily occurence in Eve, they're really not paying attention. Luckily my laptop died shortly afterwards, or I'd probably have been perma banned for griefing. I'm disgustingly tempted to go check out STO now tho :|

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#306 - 2014-05-26 20:30:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
Rhes wrote:
WiS almost killed the game so CCP wisely backed off and refocused on real Eve content.


Why do people keep propagating this lie?

The main reason for the 2011 riots was the Greed is Good memo. An added reason was the lack of (significant) content in Incarna, not WiS itself - An important distinction many people seem to ignore.

WiS is still coming down the road, this time with proper content that ties into the rest of the game. Whether it's going to be right now or in 5 or 10 years, only CCP knows atm.

Because it's not a lie, and the side pretending it is seem to hand-wave away dozens of issues and fixate on some fantasy that it was something other than an unmitigated disaster.

The inconvenient truth, is that WiS and the plan for micro-transactions were one and the same thing. No one thought that WiS was going to lead to a surge of subscribers and pay for its years of development. it was designed to be it's own revenue source. The reason 'greed is good' and the $1000 jeans blog caused so much issue, is because they revealed the future plans for WiS to be micro-transactions, not gameplay.

WiS as it was designed, died in a permanent way when the community rejected micro-transactions, because they rejected the revenue source. You can see just how hard CCP were banking on this, by the fact they later fired 20% of their staff. And, this year, finally put the WiS/CARBON avatar development on permanent hold with the cancelling of WoD.

I suspect in time, Legion and EvE will get closer, and we will probably see some FPS action in stations, but the original Incarna plans will never see development.


I actually mostly agree with this (except the Rhes quote), good thing though that no one is actually asking for development of the original incarna plans, what we want is avatar based gameplay. As you've pointed out they are not the same thing.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#307 - 2014-05-27 15:54:41 UTC
Anonymous Forumposter wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Aver Bheskagor wrote:
I have been a EVE player for about 4 years now, on a new account. I was here before, during, and after the Incarna expansion. I knew it was supposed to bring walking around outside of your pod with your avatar, which it did. But it was also supposed to bring multiplayer experience to inside the stations (bars, corporate offices, agent offices, etc.). What happened to all of that stuff? Is it still in development? Or a lost cause?

It died with WOD. They couldnt make wod work with new software and new hardware, it stands to reason they cant get it to work well enuff on 10 year old hardware and software.


Please cite your sources stating the reasons WoD was retired.

Please read what the devs stated.

tldr: We couldnt make it work.