Warfare & Tactics

Having read about eve for a long time I decided to finally taking the leap and joined earlier this month. Starting out I looked to join a corp and while talking to multiple entities it was very obvious most hated the CFC/Goons and this wasn't just large N3 corps but also smaller corps who have nothing to do with Goons.

So my question is why has such a bad stigma developed against the CFC and in particular Goon Swarm alliance?

The following couple of reasons that I was smothered with when I ask why are they so bad but then when I actually bothered to look into them I just find that coalitions such as N3 are worse.

For example I was often told Goons own most of eve and are ruining nullsec and removing content. I was even told to go look at the sov map and look at all the nasty blue CFC influence towering over the poor N3/PL influence areas and to start with yeah I though wow Goons do own everything But when if you bother to actually look into it this just isn't true.

Using dingos toolbox and roughly counting systems on Dotlan maps (might of missed some of the smaller entities within the coalitions) the CFC own 813 systems of which 679 (83%) are actual alliances and not a renting alliance. Where as with N3/PL out of the 1421 systems only 369 (25%) are non renting systems owned by alliances. So the CFC owns roughly half as many systems but has twice as many members in its coalition. This makes N3 the space hungry isk obsessed tyrant removing content with all the dull renting space.

Another complaint/reason I was told while searching for a corp was that in the CFC you're just a cog in the machine and that the Goons prevent independence. Where as N3 is a free land where you can prosper. Which again I think is untrue.

Take the most recent war. I watched several smaller entities within N3 have their space took off them and the reason being poor performance. How is taking their space away going to increase performance. How about offering better space for better performance. Especially since they own vast swathes of renting space. It just seems spiteful taking away the small amount of space these smaller entities own. Where as in the CFC from what I can tell you're incentivised to perform well as it dictates what space you gain from conflicts, not what space you'll lose.

As I stated I'm new so this could be completely wrong and if so go ahead and troll, rage and belittle me but unless you provide evidence as to why I'm wrong I'll ignore you :)

Goons are... the goons..

They are terrible at the game.. yet good at it.. They are awful for the community yet good for it..

And of course they are lead by a cartoon supervillain..

Best not to think to much about it... It doesn't really make sense.

I'm relatively new too but my take is:

1) The CFC is arguably the most powerful entity in the game. Power always attracts 'hatred', though it's often a masked form of envy.

2) When push comes to shove, Goon leadership plays to win. They don't care about being nice or giving good fights. For example, they will often employ metagame tactics specifically aimed to plss-off and demoralize the 'enemy'. The Mittani described some of them himself in his 'Sins of a Solar Spymaster' posts on TenTonHammer (a good read, imho).

3) The core Goon player base comes from Something Awful forums, a community that is independent of EVE. So they are considered 'outsiders' by EVE players. OTOH, they also consider themselves as a separate community from the rest of EVE.

My 0.02

That's my point N3/PL is as bad or worse than Goons but they don't get half as much grief or hate and I just find that baffling.

Because they are the "popular" "bad guy" that most folks feel comfortable reviling, without stopping to think about what they bring to the game.

part of the reason is that they expose the game for what it truly is.

the entity that can get the most people on their side will inevitably win the majority of battles

skill is meaningless

there is only strength in numbers

I assume you mean they can field the biggest blob but so can N3. They blobbed the crap out of their slowcat fleet beating of any CFC attack with ease before the BR incident. Yes blobbing does seem like an incredibly crap tactic but it isn't specialised to the CFC. Pretty much everyone does it for sov battles.

agree... lately they are silent. However i'm 5 years in the game so i've seen a lot.


yes, "in general". But when you have it on alliance level it says something...

Again: i'm not speaking that they are worse that others. They are just kind of people i would not keep close.

CFC line-member perspective …

I joined ‘goons’ (CFC) a couple of years ago, pretty much by accident. At the time I was imbued with all that ‘Grrr goons’ stuff and got a bit of a shock to discover that my old corp (p0lr) had become part of the greater CFC (via the recently closed GENTS alliance).

Having survived that accident I have to say that it’s actually pretty awesome being a part of this entity. There are so many things you can do … the CFC brand of ‘space communism’ allows for all sorts of esoteric offshoots and does not go all martial and “CTA!!” on us … and the support for whatever is being done is top-notch.

Some of the scamming and faeces-talk irks me, but I am entirely free not to engage in that.

It seems to me that the CFC is a very well run eve-entity and the reason it’s doing so well is the combination of taking a strategic view and having good people working hard to make that happen, along with the sheer range and flexibility of what you can do in this coalition. Of course it’s convenient, often to all parties, to push the whole ‘Grrr goons’ mantra. I think most of us quietly revel in it, knowing how good it really is to be a part of this group. I think our leadership actively fosters it, and it probably helps our continued access to streams of incoming new members. I think it’s just a part of what we are … and the fact that the ‘be classy’ GENTS alliance could do so well within CFC is testament to the real face of the coalition.

Just my tuppence.

p.s. One of the explanations I enjoyed, when confronted with some of those eternal circular 'gudfights v blob' arguments, is that we're not here for a fight, we're here to kill you and (as relevant) to take your things.

I'll agree on a few of those contributing to the 'Grr Goons' such as Burn Jita (even though idiots are the only ones who suffer from that) and the fanfest incident but the rest isn’t restricted to Goons.

As stated in my original post N3/PL have taken way more sov so surely 'Grr N3/PL' is more appropriate.

Killing off alliances isn't unique to Goons. Plus in Tests case didn't they do everything humanly possible to **** Goons off while they were in the CFC. It wasn't like Test was the innocent kid in that one.

From what I've read Goons don’t even own that many pocos in high (could be wrong),

Every one Ganks everyone not just Goons. In my brief time in highsec I've seen multiple Ganks by all sorts of poeple. CODE alliance for example,

Everyone pisses of Gelvon and his articles are fun to read so a tip my hat to Goons for that one ^^