Warfare & Tactics

Sorry but no. You need a dedicated logi counter. So what? It means you have to actually think rather than just turning up and pressing F1. It you remember our militia used to be proper screwed by the Amarr because you could field gangs with 5 Guardians. Then we adapted. Granted we whined a lot at the time, but still, we adapted.

yes david that is the chief reason why we cant fight you anymore. so low and manpower whatever available pilots we have cannot be sacrificed for pure neuting, every pilot we have needs to be in dps. it is impossible to maintain recruitment because as you have seen over the years people dont want to join the slavers.

If we had a bc plex again, im sure we could roll out some duel neut gangs again to actually fight you that have some dps but as it sits right now utility highs on ships are a fading theme.

Indeed, i post naked gifs in local and hope the logi are watching it as I strike.

The problem with logi is pretty simple really, it's not that it can't be countered. It's that if the FC actually wants to win the fight then you have to be sure you can counter it, because if not you'll literally kill nothing and lose at least half your fleet doing it. I'm not talking about scrub gangs with a few logi that lose their tacklers to people like me. I'm talking a well co-ordinated fleet that isn't stupid, stays formed properly and fights as a cohesive unit.

So lets say you too are the fc of a well co-ordinated gang but unfortunately can't field the counter because you are down on available resources. You don't engage do you, sure you can try splitting fleets etc but ultimately if the objective is to hold plexes and win strategic static placements then what exactly can you do? You break the fleet up, turn it into plexer frigates and widen your scope while the enemy fleet is still in a ball working on 1 plex.

This is why big fights in fw don't happen, we all bang the drums on 'omg but lets have some fun and pew' but in reality we all engage because we wish to win. No chance of win, no fight. Unless its a welp fleet but they don't matter because the objective is just to shoot something to let steam off rather than actually achieve something for the warzone.

This happens in all militias, i'm not pointing at minnies specifically here. Amarr have had the times they were on top of this game as I imagine cal/gall warzone emulates it.

Now to force those fights the best we can do is hope we wind the enemies up enough in local for rage engagements, again... we all do it. You'll see local explode when suddenly people realise a fights off the cards and excuses start flying more than ammo...

I'm sorry but there is no comparison, T1 logi is just terrible compared to T2. Sure T1 may have similar rep, but resist, tank, sig, cap, SS are all bad, they melt instantly in a proper fight. As for ISK logi is like 250-300m and they die incredibly rarely, even in corps that don't provide logi that can't be hard to afford on a FW budget right, like 6 missions?

The transition from T2 to T1 logi has basically meant some people aren't training logi 5 and militias in general now struggle to fight decent 3rd parties compared to say 2 years ago.

Right, did you actually read my post?



Nice.



You lost me somewhere in there.



Your terrible grammar is the only thing that reminds me you aren't just a troll and that you may actually be stupid enough to believe the stuff you write.



I'm just quoting this for comedy.

TL;DR: CCP why can't we have mutes carried over to the forums? 90% of players wouldn't have to see this.

If range isn't a problem, run target speed scrips and switch targets. Give the logi a sweat trying to save your next primary. Never flown a guardian or aug but some quick eft'ing and it's easy to see the huge difference in them.

The Guardian I can push to about 57k EHP with almost 80% resists across the board. A partner guardian could rep you for about 1.8k per second. Enough powergrid to field large reppers and not only mediums. Weaker than the aug to damps but more sturdy vs ECM. Checked the Kaboose fit.

The Aug I find it hard to push above 15k EHP close to 70% resists across, if you're now fighting at that point blank range grinding them down shouldn't be hard. And their repping power is about half the one on a Guardian. Couple of Tornados should even be able to alpha one down before they enter a plex. EFT image.

In short, if you consider only repping power, then sure the aug is about 50% as effective as the guardian. But accounting for resists and general survivability the Guardian is about five times as good.

What it comes down to is this:

Get better at eve.

The likes of iron oxide and WEAZL are decent (far from amazing) at hard ass logi gangs because we give it a go. Even when we're probably going to get served we will still generally give it a go. We've had our asses kicked plenty of times by the likes of BALEX and SC but ultimately we upped our game because of it.

Where I will accept a concession is in the lack of a useful skill base in the Amarr EU tz. At some point though you guys have to give it a go. How many skill points do you need for a basic neuting maller after all? For the good of the warzon, please give it a go.

It's not an issue of skillpoints.

Try putting yourself into the shoes of the amarr for a moment.

15-20 wartargets jump into local. You undock and after a quick dscan you see guardians and hacs. You have six dudes at the keyboard.

Now, your initial glace at local tells you many things since you've been fighting these guys for like six years or so. The most important are that these guys blob the **** out of whatever they catch, have a titan that is online, are blue with a lot of hotdroppy pirate alliances nearby, and are thus usually unwilling to enter deadspace.

So, knowing all this, what six ships are you going to put together to take these guys on? (that is, if you can get them to bother with deadspace, which they usually won't because "plexes R 4 NOOBZ" also known as "why isn't my cyno activating?!")



We're doing just fine with two active members plus another that we can sometimes tear away from dota. Unless.......you mean........




Then, no thanks.

Under that mode of thinking, so are Orcas. So I guess an Orca shouldn't be allowed in hisec either?

Guardians are trash at dealing with Volley Damage and constant swapping - they are also very much a brick in space. If a fleet has enough guardians to set up a chain then bringing a frigate with some ECM Burst isn't exactly difficult to arrange. Hell, roll an alt and do it.

Lock up targets, ECM Burst supporting Logi and then cycle onto the primary Logi. Rep per second is irrelevant if you take targets off the field before reps land.

There's also the strategy of using ECM/Damps+Bump to interrupt the cap chain as much as possible. even a small amount of neut pressure on guardians without a cap-spider makes them cap out quickly. They spend so many low slots and rig slots getting the 50k+ EHP they need to avoid Alpha-strike-1-shoota-360-no-scope-headshoot ganks that all their cap regen comes from cap transfer. And there mid slots are counter E-War so no cap regen there. It's rock paper scissors.

Projected ECCM is insanely powerful admittedly, but all it takes is a solid bump and a few sensor damps to disconnect that. Then those crap EC-300's start getting Jams and 5-10 man gangs will rip an un-support Guardian in half in less than 1 jam cycle.

Guardians cost more than a Battleship, so a Brick tanked Geddon isn't a bad idea either in terms of cost effectiveness - unless you want 3/4Billion worth of logi fleet to die to 200m of T1 cruisers... In which case you are correct: Logi OP omg nerf.