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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#341 - 2014-05-24 22:32:05 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

CEO will not log in the game except for approving new people in. No one has any assets. I am not sure what would you do. Even if you disband the corporation, new one will open right away. By same CEO with same no assets.


Disband and steal the corporation its not hard and its hilarious when it happens. Also you're discounting the amount of ego people with gimmick npc posting alts have and how much it will interfere with any gathering.

CEO would not interact with you. He would not give roles to anyone because there is no point doing that.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2014-05-24 22:35:32 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:
CEO would not interact with you. He would not give roles to anyone because there is no point doing that.


So he's literally a bot that means he would be banned. You can think of whatever 1/1000000000 case you want and it will always still do more good than harm to enact my suggestion over leaving everything as it is.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#343 - 2014-05-24 22:38:27 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:
CEO would not interact with you. He would not give roles to anyone because there is no point doing that.


So he's literally a bot that means he would be banned. You can think of whatever 1/1000000000 case you want and it will always still do more good than harm to enact my suggestion over leaving everything as it is.

Okay, now I am 100% you are trolling. Wont respond anymore. 8.94/10, nice job.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2014-05-24 22:46:43 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:
CEO would not interact with you. He would not give roles to anyone because there is no point doing that.


So he's literally a bot that means he would be banned. You can think of whatever 1/1000000000 case you want and it will always still do more good than harm to enact my suggestion over leaving everything as it is.

Okay, now I am 100% you are trolling. Wont respond anymore. 8.94/10, nice job.


It was pretty clear where you were headed, you were trying to design a 1/10000000000 case then stand behind it with something along the lines of "that fringe case means a majority of people will be prevented from posting so I'm against this thing." Anywhere there are people interacting there's going to be room for social engineering.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2014-05-24 23:21:39 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:
CEO would not interact with you. He would not give roles to anyone because there is no point doing that.


So he's literally a bot that means he would be banned. You can think of whatever 1/1000000000 case you want and it will always still do more good than harm to enact my suggestion over leaving everything as it is.

Okay, now I am 100% you are trolling. Wont respond anymore. 8.94/10, nice job.


It was pretty clear where you were headed, you were trying to design a 1/10000000000 case then stand behind it with something along the lines of "that fringe case means a majority of people will be prevented from posting so I'm against this thing." Anywhere there are people interacting there's going to be room for social engineering.


Nah, pretty sure he was going in the direction of creating a form alt corp which has nothing, and no one actually flies in, just uses to post. It's what I'd do. If you figure out a way to steal the corp, good on you, it wouldn't be a bother.

Will it improve the quality of the forms? It's extremely hard to answer a question that is that subjective. We'll likely have less people posting, I suppose. That may be an improvement.

I say do it. There are too many people on these forms as it is.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#346 - 2014-05-25 07:52:20 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

That it works in one selected section I'm not going to argue. But neither you nor I can prove it will work when applied to everything else. You constantly mention about effort wall, :effort: wall even, but you don't know if lack of trolling is because this wall works so well or just because trolls decided to move somewhere else for easier trophies and if you force them to make that effort to post at all, how are you so sure they won't go to CAOD back? Do you have plan B ready?


You don't like something so that makes it absurd? Its a method that has been shown to work before and it is something CCP already has code for so it is something that is much more likely to happen. It is also not my criteria CCP set up how the CAOD restriction worked my suggestion merely expands it to other forums. You seem to forget that this is only one part of the solution and that more will be required this is intended to be an easy quick fix CCP can put in place to greatly improve forum quality and decrease work load.

I don't like it because it is absurd. Slight difference.

Since you tend to ignore arguments against your case I see no point developing the subject. Suffice to say is that you supposedly want to curb certain behaviour and propose solution which is totally unrelated to it. Which means that you will punish significant part of innocent population while at the same time those guilty will have means of escaping it. To add insult to injury the hoops you propose of course are not such you would have to jump through.

As for CAOD I don't claim I know CCP's inner workings but I'm almost certain they did it as an exception, not as the excercise of introducing new rule. If, as you claim, the forum is part of the game, then RoAnnon nailed things squarely: the right to speak in local should be equal to right to write on forum.

So if you excuse me, I'm going to stop bumping your thread. Unless you write something new or actually address the flaws and concerns which have been raised so far (both by me and others).
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#347 - 2014-05-25 08:27:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Rather than decrease player freedom, perhaps we could address the problem by increasing it.

Rather than blocking NPC corp members from posting, perhaps it would be better to allow us to ignore by corp. Thus rather than ignore TrollyMcAlt of The Scope, La Nariz would simply be able to ignore everyone in The Scope.

Then those people who find that reading NPC corp member posts decreases the utility of the forums for them can easily avoid doing so. If sufficient numbers of players agree, then the trolling opportunities would greatly decrease.

Taking a leaf from the standing system, a useful refinement could be to allow individual "forum standings" - ie have the "corp ignore" not be a seperate flag as such, but a batch job that sets the ignore flag for all members, but allows people override that on an individual basis. So when La Nariz sets The Scope to ignore, he's effectively individually ignoring every member of The Scope at once.

So then if La Lariz was impressed by the posting of a specific exceptional (or temporary) NPC corp member in the Scope, he could just uncheck the ignore flag for that member and read her posts, whilst continuing to ignore by default everyone else in The Scope


If La Nariz has already ignored an entire npc Corp how will he ever discover the exceptional post by one of its members thus allowing him to flag that member and allow readability of her future posts?

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#348 - 2014-05-25 08:39:14 UTC
I guess that'd be the collateral damage and edge case he is willing to sacrifice with the original proposal.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#349 - 2014-05-25 08:50:14 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Over the years I have grown to hate NPC Corps and consider them a blight in our game.

To me a NPC corp should be a temporary place for a character to live whilst changing corps / selling a character / or if you plan on taking a break from Eve but do not want to stop your subscription.

I would love nothing more then NPC Characters not being able to make posts on the forum unless you are selling your character.

I would love nothing more if NPC Characters could not pick up say level 2+ missions.

I would love it if NPC characters took a huge hit in terms of cost / efficiency /refinery etc in regards to Industry and Market Jobs.

At some point CCP really need to take a good long hard look at NPC Corps because I am damn sure they did not want them to be used as they are today.









If La Nariz had his way this post would count as an attempt to derail the thread and not be allowed.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#350 - 2014-05-25 08:52:36 UTC
Perhaps we should have a points based system, where posting costs a point, every forum like replaces a point etc, no points means that you cannot post.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#351 - 2014-05-25 11:46:52 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
If La Nariz has already ignored an entire npc Corp how will he ever discover the exceptional post by one of its members thus allowing him to flag that member and allow readability of her future posts?


Because other people quote NPCs in their replies on occasion.

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Perhaps we should have a points based system, where posting costs a point, every forum like replaces a point etc, no points means that you cannot post.


Every like from my alt / one of my other accounts replaces a point? Ok. That system sounds fool-proof, in fact it even meets the much stricter standard of being me-proof.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2014-05-25 13:08:17 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:

I don't like it because it is absurd. Slight difference.

Since you tend to ignore arguments against your case I see no point developing the subject. Suffice to say is that you supposedly want to curb certain behaviour and propose solution which is totally unrelated to it. Which means that you will punish significant part of innocent population while at the same time those guilty will have means of escaping it. To add insult to injury the hoops you propose of course are not such you would have to jump through.

As for CAOD I don't claim I know CCP's inner workings but I'm almost certain they did it as an exception, not as the excercise of introducing new rule. If, as you claim, the forum is part of the game, then RoAnnon nailed things squarely: the right to speak in local should be equal to right to write on forum.

So if you excuse me, I'm going to stop bumping your thread. Unless you write something new or actually address the flaws and concerns which have been raised so far (both by me and others).


I've addressed all of your complaints and all you have left is that you think its absurd because you don't like the idea. There isn't much to address there, no logic, no argument, and not even an emotional appeal. I don't address your repeated points because they've been settled already and the hyperbolic rage you've displayed is old and unfunny.

If NPC alt trolling is an issue and a solution directly addresses NPC alt trolling how is it "totally unrelated to it?" I've never hid in an NPC corporation and am a member of a player corporation so why would I have any hoops to jump through, your goonspiracy is bleeding through again.

I think Malcanis nailed it much better with something like: "When someone's income depends upon maintaining an imbalance its going to be all but impossible to convince them the imbalance exists." The same sense remains for this suggestion.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#353 - 2014-05-25 13:42:13 UTC
When reading this, I'm feeling insulted and I have to express my deep worries about, that the OPs proposal to exclude people just because of play styles that are not appreciated by certain groups are reflected somewhat positively by official persons.

The actual problem is, some people misuse throw-away characters to troll the forum. This is completely unrelated to whether a poster is (temporarily) in a NPC corp or not. The solution shall target the abuse not the people. Any solution not taking this into account will fail by either not reducing the problem or driving players away (I assume, that the OPs motivation is to solve the problem).

IMO the best idea I have read here is to restrict posting right to the character per account with the highest SPs. This will immediately bring the throw-away character mechanics to an end, with the drawback of reduced anonymity. I consider it unlikely that for the sake of offensive anonymity people will pay for an then needed throw-away account. A tweak could be to indicate clearly for every character who is who's alt, but this would restrict gameplay options too much IMO.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#354 - 2014-05-25 14:24:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Tipa Riot wrote:
When reading this, I'm feeling insulted and I have to express my deep worries about, that the OPs proposal to exclude people just because of play styles that are not appreciated by certain groups are reflected somewhat positively by official persons.


Trolling forums is not a playstyle. Your game will be unaffected.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#355 - 2014-05-25 15:50:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
When reading this, I'm feeling insulted and I have to express my deep worries about, that the OPs proposal to exclude people just because of play styles that are not appreciated by certain groups are reflected somewhat positively by official persons.


Trolling forums is not a playstyle. Your game will be unaffected.

Nope, you would exclude me from posting comments like that just because my char is in a NPC corp.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#356 - 2014-05-25 16:25:17 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
When reading this, I'm feeling insulted and I have to express my deep worries about, that the OPs proposal to exclude people just because of play styles that are not appreciated by certain groups are reflected somewhat positively by official persons.


Trolling forums is not a playstyle. Your game will be unaffected.

Nope, you would exclude me from posting comments like that just because my char is in a NPC corp.


The forums are not the game.

And noticeably, the forum in which this proposal has been enacted has improved considerably since.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2014-05-25 17:25:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
When reading this, I'm feeling insulted and I have to express my deep worries about, that the OPs proposal to exclude people just because of play styles that are not appreciated by certain groups are reflected somewhat positively by official persons.


Trolling forums is not a playstyle. Your game will be unaffected.

Nope, you would exclude me from posting comments like that just because my char is in a NPC corp.


The forums are not the game.

Good point! The forum is the support, feedback, and discussion channel for CCPs customers ...

I'm my own NPC alt.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#358 - 2014-05-25 17:40:12 UTC
I completely disagree with any effort to block posting on the forums by any paid member without prior incident from that member specifically. That is absolutely ridiculous, for any reason. HOWEVER, blocking by corp, would not only be reasonable, but completely address this for people who don't want to see posts by npc corp members.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#359 - 2014-05-25 17:44:47 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
When reading this, I'm feeling insulted and I have to express my deep worries about, that the OPs proposal to exclude people just because of play styles that are not appreciated by certain groups are reflected somewhat positively by official persons.


Trolling forums is not a playstyle. Your game will be unaffected.

Nope, you would exclude me from posting comments like that just because my char is in a NPC corp.


The forums are not the game.

Good point! The forum is the support, feedback, and discussion channel for CCPs customers ...


The forums are just as much a part of the game as ingame chat channels. The forums are an area for players to discuss events in eve, to recruit for their corp, to buy and sell items, to create backstories, to brag and stroke. The forums are very much indeed part of the game.

The point that Kaarous Aldurald here seems to have such a difficult time understanding however, is that it is wrong to exclude all npc corp players just because a very small fraction of them might partake in activities you don't like. If we are banning all NPC corp members from posting because a few have trolled, then we'd better be consistent, and ban every single other corporation or alliance from the forums that has members who troll.

With ideas like the OP's enacted, the eve forums will quickly become a very dull and empty part of the game.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#360 - 2014-05-25 18:02:52 UTC
Arronicus wrote:

The point that Kaarous Aldurald here seems to have such a difficult time understanding however, is that it is wrong to exclude all npc corp players just because a very small fraction of them might partake in activities you don't like. If we are banning all NPC corp members from posting because a few have trolled, then we'd better be consistent, and ban every single other corporation or alliance from the forums that has members who troll.

With ideas like the OP's enacted, the eve forums will quickly become a very dull and empty part of the game.


Or, like CAOD, will become nearly devoid of trolling.

The fact that they've had a successful test run of this really puts the lie to your claims. And granted, while you might claim that it's a "small fraction" of NPC players who troll, they make up a large fraction of forum trolling.

And it's not like there won't be forums where this isn't the case. But in places like F&I, and GD, this is needed desperately, both of those forums are clogged with garbage, and it's long past time to take out the trash and make those an actual discussion forum instead of an NPC corp troll festival.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.