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Hisec POS question

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Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-05-20 07:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Coffee Rocks
Walton Street wrote:
I'm sensing that I'm on the wrong track here, so let me tweak my question somewhat.

I am planning a POS and I can only fit two of the following three:

1. Guns
2. EWar
3. Resists

I had assumed that #1 was a given, but now it's sounding more like #2 and #3 is the best option. Am I getting that right?


If someone really wants to bash your small POS in HS, no combination of those 3 will mean a thing on their own. You need defenders, and in the case you have them, POS gunners would be crucial. It's all subjective and absolutely matters: do you have gunners? do you have good PVP teams that can meet timers? what racial tower? is losing it that big of a deal?

Small POS's are considered disposable, to be honest. If it's a small group attacking you, the deciding factor will still be ship vs. ship. If you plan to defend a large POS (I'm assuming you are looking to anchor a POS and haven't already), I can give you some advice:


  • Keep extra guns/ECM anchored and ready to online. Doesn't hurt to have even more ready in station.
  • Keep it full of strontium. Keep an extra bay's worth of stront in backstock for each POS.
  • Keep at least 30 days worth of fuel in backstock in a nearby station.
  • Each racial tower has "holes" in their resists. Plug the holes with hardeners, and have more hardeners anchored and ready to online before you get wardecced. When you get wardecced, see what ammo types they typically use and online a few extra hardeners of that type. Switch extra resists as necessary.
  • Faction ammo in the guns is not necessary, unless you really really want to (I typically do in our Amarr POS's, but that's me).
  • ECM is your best friend. Cruise missile batteries are useless. Large guns are useless. Stick with small guns, mix of short and long range.
  • Never leave PG/CPU empty - fill it up with online defensive modules. Offline guns/ECM/Hardeners you don't need when you need to free up PG/CPU, then offline and store away all non-defensive modules when wardecced.
  • Don't give just anyone roles that can unfuel or unanchor POS's or modules. You better trust them.
  • Same as above, but with Starbase Defender role. Nothing sucks worse than an awoxer POS-gunning your Orca.
  • Make your password something no one will guess, for crying out loud.
  • Never keep BPO's in the POS hangers directly (until the next expansion of course :P)
  • HELL, you are in Highsec - NEVER keep ANYTHING you can store in the station in the POS.
  • If you are wardecced, make tactical bookmarks in that system before it takes affect. Then make a bunch just for yourself (in case of spy). Instant docks (warps you to 0 on the stations), instant undocks from stations (at least 300km, but further the better as long as it's a clean warp), tacticals around your POS and the station, tacs on the gates, safes, etc.
  • Keep POSpreys handy if you think you'll need to repair shield damage.
  • Keep doctrine ships in 2 or more stations in system (if you can) to mess with enemy. Makes them mad when they can't just camp ONE station. :)
  • This is EVE. If you get wardecced, get your corp together, call in friends, and go have fun losing cheap destroyers killing them. As long as you kill more value than you lose, they won't bother 'deccing you again, and you will have gained VALUABLE PVP experience.


Fly Brave

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Walton Street
#22 - 2014-05-20 16:10:19 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:


If someone really wants to bash your small POS in HS, no combination of those 3 will mean a thing on their own. You need defenders, and in the case you have them, POS gunners would be crucial. It's all subjective and absolutely matters: do you have gunners? do you have good PVP teams that can meet timers? what racial tower? is losing it that big of a deal?

Small POS's are considered disposable, to be honest. If it's a small group attacking you, the deciding factor will still be ship vs. ship. If you plan to defend a large POS (I'm assuming you are looking to anchor a POS and haven't already), I can give you some advice:


  • Keep extra guns/ECM anchored and ready to online. Doesn't hurt to have even more ready in station.
  • Keep it full of strontium. Keep an extra bay's worth of stront in backstock for each POS.
  • Keep at least 30 days worth of fuel in backstock in a nearby station.
  • Each racial tower has "holes" in their resists. Plug the holes with hardeners, and have more hardeners anchored and ready to online before you get wardecced. When you get wardecced, see what ammo types they typically use and online a few extra hardeners of that type. Switch extra resists as necessary.
  • Faction ammo in the guns is not necessary, unless you really really want to (I typically do in our Amarr POS's, but that's me).
  • ECM is your best friend. Cruise missile batteries are useless. Large guns are useless. Stick with small guns, mix of short and long range.
  • Never leave PG/CPU empty - fill it up with online defensive modules. Offline guns/ECM/Hardeners you don't need when you need to free up PG/CPU, then offline and store away all non-defensive modules when wardecced.
  • Don't give just anyone roles that can unfuel or unanchor POS's or modules. You better trust them.
  • Same as above, but with Starbase Defender role. Nothing sucks worse than an awoxer POS-gunning your Orca.
  • Make your password something no one will guess, for crying out loud.
  • Never keep BPO's in the POS hangers directly (until the next expansion of course :P)
  • HELL, you are in Highsec - NEVER keep ANYTHING you can store in the station in the POS.
  • If you are wardecced, make tactical bookmarks in that system before it takes affect. Then make a bunch just for yourself (in case of spy). Instant docks (warps you to 0 on the stations), instant undocks from stations (at least 300km, but further the better as long as it's a clean warp), tacticals around your POS and the station, tacs on the gates, safes, etc.
  • Keep POSpreys handy if you think you'll need to repair shield damage.
  • Keep doctrine ships in 2 or more stations in system (if you can) to mess with enemy. Makes them mad when they can't just camp ONE station. :)
  • This is EVE. If you get wardecced, get your corp together, call in friends, and go have fun losing cheap destroyers killing them. As long as you kill more value than you lose, they won't bother 'deccing you again, and you will have gained VALUABLE PVP experience.


Fly Brave


Thanks for all the tips. I was vaguely aware of most of these from my previous incarnation, but being reminded never hurts.

So, small POS = disposable. Got it. Given how little they cost, I guess that makes sense. And given that I wasn't planning on doing anything too important there, that makes sense too. Mostly, just giving it a try.

One question: what is a "doctrine" ship? I'm guessing from your post that it's a standard fit combat vessel, but I wanted to check.

One last generic question: do you need to have a corporate hangar online for input/output of research & manufacturing jobs? I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes", but I figured I'd ask.



Thanks again to everyone who's provided input.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-05-20 17:50:07 UTC
If you're going to keep BPOs/BPCs in station and use them remotely (until next expansion), you need an office rented at a station in the system. Outputs are placed in the lab/array's own hanger.
Walton Street
#24 - 2014-05-20 19:30:08 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you're going to keep BPOs/BPCs in station and use them remotely (until next expansion), you need an office rented at a station in the system. Outputs are placed in the lab/array's own hanger.


So, to clarify, I don't need a corporate hangar anchored and online to do research/production?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-05-20 19:49:24 UTC
No.
Walton Street
#26 - 2014-05-20 20:01:13 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
No.


Thanks. I appreciate the patience. I figure it's better to ask these questions now before I start anchoring stuff.
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#27 - 2014-05-21 07:31:31 UTC
I think you're able to try it out on SiSi.

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-05-23 19:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Coffee Rocks
Walton Street wrote:

Thanks for all the tips. I was vaguely aware of most of these from my previous incarnation, but being reminded never hurts.

So, small POS = disposable. Got it. Given how little they cost, I guess that makes sense. And given that I wasn't planning on doing anything too important there, that makes sense too. Mostly, just giving it a try.

One question: what is a "doctrine" ship? I'm guessing from your post that it's a standard fit combat vessel, but I wanted to check.

One last generic question: do you need to have a corporate hangar online for input/output of research & manufacturing jobs? I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes", but I figured I'd ask.


Thanks again to everyone who's provided input.


"Doctrine" refers to a particular Ship and Fitting that your corp/alliance/coalition all fly. Typically, you give a certain doctrine a fun and relevant name and then have several ships with that doctrine's name. For instance, you might have a newbie friendly Highsec home defense Doctrine, named "Walton Fleet" which is comprised of Scythes (shield logi), T1 Condors (cheap, fast tackler), T1 Griffins (cheap, throwaway ECM frig), Talwars (rapid response kiting), railgun Thoraxes (main body), and maybe Feroxes (higher DPS/tank for response to enemy BCs/BSs). All shield, with skills that complement one another (Caldari and Hybrid gun pilots can graduate ship types fairly easy, for instance), while maintaining needed roles such as Logi and EWAR.

Dude, and let me just say not enough of Highseccers and Lowseccers in EVE, in general, understand how important it is to incorporate good, cheap EWAR into your fleet. A pair of Griffins/Maulus that cost less than 1mil ISK to put together in your 5man gang can ruin any other small gang's day, and 40 T1 Griffins/Maulus w/ tackle will make Goons run in terror. Trust me on that.

Why do Doctrines? Well, several reasons, really.

  • It allows your FC to quickly know the best ways to use his fleet (i.e., our Talwars are long range - keep the fleet at range!, etc)
  • It allows your members to concentrate their skills on a particular doctrine and know what and WHY to have in their hanger
  • It allows your Indy and Markets guys to concentrate on particular ships/modules/ammo/rigs instead of trying to build anything and everything.
  • It allows your doctrine ships to fly best together. The most obvious example is: Armor PVP ships w/ armor logi.
  • It allows your leadership to shift to a different doctrine when they know they are fighting a particular enemy soon that has a weakness in theirs. Example: shift your Bomber doctrine to EM bombs if your enemy has a shield fleet doctrine with an EM hole in their resists.


As for the POS question: You don't need a hanger or Ship Maintenance Array (SMA) online until you need to empty the manufacturing array. That said: I'm not 100% on arrays such as Ammunition Assembly Array, as I use them rarely and would almost always have the other modules online anyways. So take that with a grain of salt since I'm pulling it out of memory. :P

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-05-23 20:07:20 UTC
Walton Street wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you're going to keep BPOs/BPCs in station and use them remotely (until next expansion), you need an office rented at a station in the system. Outputs are placed in the lab/array's own hanger.


So, to clarify, I don't need a corporate hangar anchored and online to do research/production?


No, you do not if you have the BPOs in a corporate hanger located in a station in the system.

FYI - if you do copying, your copies will show up in the POS Lab hanger. If you do invention, you will need the additional materials in the Lab hanger, but you can still start the job from the corp hanger in Station. The successful invention BPC's will also show up in the Lab hanger at the POS.

I tell you that so you are mindful to collect those finished copies, and aren't submitting trouble tickets saying "MAH S41T DIDN'T WERK!"

Again, as Elena said, this is only relevant until next expansion, at which time the sky will open up and fall on all our heads.

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-05-23 20:09:40 UTC
Walton Street wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
No.


Thanks. I appreciate the patience. I figure it's better to ask these questions now before I start anchoring stuff.


The only knowledge in this game is found through trial and error, or asking for help from the experienced (no guarantees on both of those methods, either ;)

Don't let the trolls that call the forums their home dismay you. Most of us aren't all that bad and will help when we have the time.

Or, you can just join Thrall, BNI or another Brave corp and have direct access :D

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#31 - 2014-05-24 19:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Walton Street wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you're going to keep BPOs/BPCs in station and use them remotely (until next expansion), you need an office rented at a station in the system. Outputs are placed in the lab/array's own hanger.


So, to clarify, I don't need a corporate hangar anchored and online to do research/production?

No.

Research materials go into the labs. Manufacturing materials go into the assembly arrays.

Corporate Hangars / Private Hangars are only used when you are living out of the POS, typically when there isn't a station.

Ship Maintenance Arrays (SMA) are useful for refitting in-space like a Mobile Depot, as well as storing defender ships. SMA don't use CPU, so they can be accessed even when the tower goes into reinforced mode; they are in fact the only module that can be accessed when reinforced. They are also useful when building ships: assemble the ship in the assembly array, and move it to the SMA so you can board it.

Important: You cannot build using un-packaged ships, and there is no way to package them at a POS, so don't assemble them if you want to build with them. This means that when building T2 ships, you have to build the T1 ship at the POS.

Assembly arrays can in fact be used for storage too, and a Component Array is handy for that, as it can also be used to build fuel blocks (and it is larger than an Ammo Assembly Array). The current largest assembly array that can be anchored anywhere is the Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array, though its material penalty makes it useless for manufacturing (but this is changing).

Of course all labs and arrays are being overhauled July 22nd. Plus there will be two new arrays usable in hisec: reprocessing and compression.
Walton Street
#32 - 2014-05-27 14:26:24 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
...doctrine info...

Thanks. I had heard similar terms in my previous incarnation, but now I'm seeing the term "Doctrine Ships" pretty much everywhere.

Coffee Rocks wrote:
Dude, and let me just say not enough of Highseccers and Lowseccers in EVE, in general, understand how important it is to incorporate good, cheap EWAR into your fleet. A pair of Griffins/Maulus that cost less than 1mil ISK to put together in your 5man gang can ruin any other small gang's day, and 40 T1 Griffins/Maulus w/ tackle will make Goons run in terror. Trust me on that.

BECAUSE OF FALCON! Twisted

Tau Cabalander wrote:
Research materials go into the labs. Manufacturing materials go into the assembly arrays.

Corporate Hangars / Private Hangars are only used when you are living out of the POS, typically when there isn't a station.

...

Important: You cannot build using un-packaged ships, and there is no way to package them at a POS, so don't assemble them if you want to build with them. This means that when building T2 ships, you have to build the T1 ship at the POS.

Assembly arrays can in fact be used for storage too, and a Component Array is handy for that, as it can also be used to build fuel blocks (and it is larger than an Ammo Assembly Array). The current largest assembly array that can be anchored anywhere is the Advanced Large Ship Assembly Array, though its material penalty makes it useless for manufacturing (but this is changing).

Of course all labs and arrays are being overhauled July 22nd. Plus there will be two new arrays usable in hisec: reprocessing and compression.

It's exactly because of the new changes that I'm giving this a try. I figured I'd get in on the ground floor so to speak. I don't plan on doing any T2 production right off the bat, but I'll keep the bit about assembled ships in mind.


Thanks again for all the info folks. I would have tried this all out on SiSi, but my re-activation is still new enough that I'm not active there. If I'm not there after the next change, I'll poke CCP to re-activate me.

Fly safe.
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