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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#321 - 2014-05-24 13:04:33 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

That's the thing. He is wanting it setup so if anyone disagrees with him or the current narrative of his overloards; they lash out at the person in the game to silence them. This could be via war decs, station camping and even suicide ganking. Anything to silence the opposition - especially high sec players.

Sadly him along with others seem to think how they play the game is the only way it should be. Gone is the sandbox and they would imprison you into shackles of 'play this way or leave the game.'

I suggest, like CCP, the CSM and even ISD to simply use the already existing report feature in the forums. If you feel someone is breaking the forum rules, report them. Easy. No need for this childish over the top yoke some groups would have the rest of the players wear.


You keep proving my point aside from your goonspiracy. Unlike a faceless NPC troll alt I can go and enact a consequence against you should you decide derailing/trolling my thread is a good idea. If reporting works then why are the same NPC troll alts still here? I don't think CCP has enough resources to handle the work load of dealing with them so enacting this change will greatly decrease that workload and allow them to better deal with the problem.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#322 - 2014-05-24 13:20:27 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:

Right along with good portion of non-trolling people. Surgical precision, my ass.

And, when we're at it, why arbitrary limit of 10 persons? Why not set the bar at 100+ man corp, or 1000+ man? Or, dare I say, restrict forum only to the members of somethingawful? Do you deny that posting quality would skyrocket on each subsequent change?

Or why not set the bar at something which would require some :effort: from you? Like, for instance, filling monthly quota of mined Veldspar? Since to you the forum equals the game, you should have no problem accepting such conditions (and watching you actually doing it would more than make up for being silenced myself).


Take your Xanax dude the hyperbolic rage coming forth isn't helping your case. I kept it limited to CAOD rules because we know what that restriction did it removed a massive amount of the trolling and increased the quality of that forum. Unlike your other suggestions which are not tested and we have no idea what they would do.

Whatever medication I take is a matter between me and my doctor, thank you.

I'm not raging, I just show absurdity of your arbitrary criteria.

That it works in one selected section I'm not going to argue. But neither you nor I can prove it will work when applied to everything else. You constantly mention about effort wall, :effort: wall even, but you don't know if lack of trolling is because this wall works so well or just because trolls decided to move somewhere else for easier trophies and if you force them to make that effort to post at all, how are you so sure they won't go to CAOD back? Do you have plan B ready?
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#323 - 2014-05-24 14:13:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

You would be able to do exactly NOTHING. Nada. Nic. Nanimo. Null.
It would be a corporation where CEO would not undock and not give anyone any power. It would be corporation without any member undocking from their base station. What would you do? War dec them? Please, do it. Please wardec my corporation. Every week. At least 5 times. Please, I beg you do it. I will laugh so hard I will fall from my chair.


That avatar and character name combo is awesome. It allows people to do some sort of action against that poster. Which is more than the current situation allows, remember you'll have to have at least 10 other active accounts in your corporation.

Can you list all actions you can do?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2014-05-24 18:05:24 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:

Whatever medication I take is a matter between me and my doctor, thank you.

I'm not raging, I just show absurdity of your arbitrary criteria.

That it works in one selected section I'm not going to argue. But neither you nor I can prove it will work when applied to everything else. You constantly mention about effort wall, :effort: wall even, but you don't know if lack of trolling is because this wall works so well or just because trolls decided to move somewhere else for easier trophies and if you force them to make that effort to post at all, how are you so sure they won't go to CAOD back? Do you have plan B ready?


You don't like something so that makes it absurd? Its a method that has been shown to work before and it is something CCP already has code for so it is something that is much more likely to happen. It is also not my criteria CCP set up how the CAOD restriction worked my suggestion merely expands it to other forums. You seem to forget that this is only one part of the solution and that more will be required this is intended to be an easy quick fix CCP can put in place to greatly improve forum quality and decrease work load.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2014-05-24 18:08:39 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:

Can you list all actions you can do?


I think you're trolling but, in case I'm mistaken I'll humor you this one time. I'm not going to give you literally everything either just some of the most likely actions:

-Awox her,
-Gank her in highsec,
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
-Steal from her corporation,
-Tell her corporation to remove her or else,
-Disband her alliance,
-Pay someone else to do the above.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#326 - 2014-05-24 18:37:59 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

That's the thing. He is wanting it setup so if anyone disagrees with him or the current narrative of his overloards; they lash out at the person in the game to silence them. This could be via war decs, station camping and even suicide ganking. Anything to silence the opposition - especially high sec players.

Sadly him along with others seem to think how they play the game is the only way it should be. Gone is the sandbox and they would imprison you into shackles of 'play this way or leave the game.'

I suggest, like CCP, the CSM and even ISD to simply use the already existing report feature in the forums. If you feel someone is breaking the forum rules, report them. Easy. No need for this childish over the top yoke some groups would have the rest of the players wear.


You keep proving my point aside from your goonspiracy. Unlike a faceless NPC troll alt I can go and enact a consequence against you should you decide derailing/trolling my thread is a good idea. If reporting works then why are the same NPC troll alts still here? I don't think CCP has enough resources to handle the work load of dealing with them so enacting this change will greatly decrease that workload and allow them to better deal with the problem.

You have no intention to go after trolls. You specifically want to cause harm to anyone who does not line up to drink the Kool-Aid. I simply can not allow that.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2014-05-24 18:47:56 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

That's the thing. He is wanting it setup so if anyone disagrees with him or the current narrative of his overloards; they lash out at the person in the game to silence them. This could be via war decs, station camping and even suicide ganking. Anything to silence the opposition - especially high sec players.

Sadly him along with others seem to think how they play the game is the only way it should be. Gone is the sandbox and they would imprison you into shackles of 'play this way or leave the game.'

I suggest, like CCP, the CSM and even ISD to simply use the already existing report feature in the forums. If you feel someone is breaking the forum rules, report them. Easy. No need for this childish over the top yoke some groups would have the rest of the players wear.


You keep proving my point aside from your goonspiracy. Unlike a faceless NPC troll alt I can go and enact a consequence against you should you decide derailing/trolling my thread is a good idea. If reporting works then why are the same NPC troll alts still here? I don't think CCP has enough resources to handle the work load of dealing with them so enacting this change will greatly decrease that workload and allow them to better deal with the problem.

You have no intention to go after trolls. You specifically want to cause harm to anyone who does not line up to drink the Kool-Aid. I simply can not allow that.



Which is why a distinction between forums and game - a single alias per account, divorced from in game characters is a better way forward. Limits trolling, prevents other less savoury side effects.

In addition to giving ISD more grunt, as previously discussed.
Dave Stark
#328 - 2014-05-24 19:35:40 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
You have no intention to go after trolls. You specifically want to cause harm to anyone who does not line up to drink the Kool-Aid. I simply can not allow that.

i sincerely doubt that will happen.

i post a lot on these forums, and i know for a fact that i rub people up the wrong way most of the time (some of it is even accidental).

the amount of times people have taken things from the forum to in game? 0 times.
I'd also imagine that goons have more important things to do than waste their time on forum posters. then again, perhaps not if everyone in null is too busy mass producing supercaps in some kind of weird "let's build them and never use them" arms race. *shrug*
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#329 - 2014-05-24 19:44:10 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Can you list all actions you can do?


I think you're trolling but, in case I'm mistaken I'll humor you this one time. I'm not going to give you literally everything either just some of the most likely actions:

-Awox her,
-Gank her in highsec,
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
-Steal from her corporation,
-Tell her corporation to remove her or else,
-Disband her alliance,
-Pay someone else to do the above.



How do you expect to that to a corporation made specifically for forum alts?

-Awox her:
There is nothing to awox, even if you get in (which you will do), there is nothing to steal/blow up
- Gank her in highsec,
CEO and members wont undock. Ever.
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
See above
-Steal from her corporation,
See above
-Disband her alliance,
No need for alliance for such forum alt corp
-Pay someone else to do the above
Waste of money
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#330 - 2014-05-24 19:49:14 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

That's the thing. He is wanting it setup so if anyone disagrees with him or the current narrative of his overloards; they lash out at the person in the game to silence them. This could be via war decs, station camping and even suicide ganking. Anything to silence the opposition - especially high sec players.

Sadly him along with others seem to think how they play the game is the only way it should be. Gone is the sandbox and they would imprison you into shackles of 'play this way or leave the game.'

I suggest, like CCP, the CSM and even ISD to simply use the already existing report feature in the forums. If you feel someone is breaking the forum rules, report them. Easy. No need for this childish over the top yoke some groups would have the rest of the players wear.


You keep proving my point aside from your goonspiracy. Unlike a faceless NPC troll alt I can go and enact a consequence against you should you decide derailing/trolling my thread is a good idea. If reporting works then why are the same NPC troll alts still here? I don't think CCP has enough resources to handle the work load of dealing with them so enacting this change will greatly decrease that workload and allow them to better deal with the problem.

You have no intention to go after trolls. You specifically want to cause harm to anyone who does not line up to drink the Kool-Aid. I simply can not allow that.

you complain about ~ad hominem attacks~

but post like this
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#331 - 2014-05-24 21:19:10 UTC
I'm just stunned that this thread hasn't been locked from the start Shocked .

For a reminder : Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

The right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and is commonly subject to limitations based on the speech implications of the harm principle including libel, slander, obscenity and pornography, sedition, hate speech, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements.

But what you are suggesting discriminaly reducing the voice of a categorized population (NPC corp) ,and asking the right to retaliate to anyone who disagree with you ,is a common trait of every "dictatorship" in the world.

I'm not even sure what you are asking is legal in many countries and CCP should be wise to consult their lawyers ,before implementing such a measure.

There is technical solutions to the current flamming,trolling problems .One is to separate forum accounts from in game accounts ,and increasing ISD team power ,allowing them to BAN forum accounts when there are issues with harm principle and eula in a thread .

I want to remenber to everyone reading that the greatiest might of "goons" are their Propaganda .

To the Op you come to us with valid concerns, but the simple fact you allowed yourself to propose such a disgusting measure is the proof you don't care about them .

"Men are getting bored from good .Seeking better,they find evil and submit to it .Worries for the future "
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2014-05-24 21:50:37 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Can you list all actions you can do?


I think you're trolling but, in case I'm mistaken I'll humor you this one time. I'm not going to give you literally everything either just some of the most likely actions:

-Awox her,
-Gank her in highsec,
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
-Steal from her corporation,
-Tell her corporation to remove her or else,
-Disband her alliance,
-Pay someone else to do the above.



How do you expect to that to a corporation made specifically for forum alts?

-Awox her:
There is nothing to awox, even if you get in (which you will do), there is nothing to steal/blow up
- Gank her in highsec,
CEO and members wont undock. Ever.
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
See above
-Steal from her corporation,
See above
-Disband her alliance,
No need for alliance for such forum alt corp
-Pay someone else to do the above
Waste of money


Social engineering for most of that, the same way you kill other hard to affect entities.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2014-05-24 21:52:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

You have no intention to go after trolls. You specifically want to cause harm to anyone who does not line up to drink the Kool-Aid. I simply can not allow that.


So do you have any thing against my assertion that it would increase forum quality by decreasing the amount of trolling via an :effort: wall and decreasing isd/community manager workload? The goonspiracy you are spewing isn't entertaining/clever/funny.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#334 - 2014-05-24 21:56:34 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Can you list all actions you can do?


I think you're trolling but, in case I'm mistaken I'll humor you this one time. I'm not going to give you literally everything either just some of the most likely actions:

-Awox her,
-Gank her in highsec,
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
-Steal from her corporation,
-Tell her corporation to remove her or else,
-Disband her alliance,
-Pay someone else to do the above.



How do you expect to that to a corporation made specifically for forum alts?

-Awox her:
There is nothing to awox, even if you get in (which you will do), there is nothing to steal/blow up
- Gank her in highsec,
CEO and members wont undock. Ever.
-Declare war so I can kill her in highsec without CONCORD interference,
See above
-Steal from her corporation,
See above
-Disband her alliance,
No need for alliance for such forum alt corp
-Pay someone else to do the above
Waste of money


Social engineering for most of that, the same way you kill other hard to affect entities.

Are you trolling? No one can be that ********...
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2014-05-24 21:57:38 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
I'm just stunned that this thread hasn't been locked from the start Shocked .

For a reminder : Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

The right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and is commonly subject to limitations based on the speech implications of the harm principle including libel, slander, obscenity and pornography, sedition, hate speech, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements.

But what you are suggesting discriminaly reducing the voice of a categorized population (NPC corp) ,and asking the right to retaliate to anyone who disagree with you ,is a common trait of every "dictatorship" in the world.

I'm not even sure what you are asking is legal in many countries and CCP should be wise to consult their lawyers ,before implementing such a measure.

There is technical solutions to the current flamming,trolling problems .One is to separate forum accounts from in game accounts ,and increasing ISD team power ,allowing them to BAN forum accounts when there are issues with harm principle and eula in a thread .

I want to remenber to everyone reading that the greatiest might of "goons" are their Propaganda .

To the Op you come to us with valid concerns, but the simple fact you allowed yourself to propose such a disgusting measure is the proof you don't care about them .

"Men are getting bored from good .Seeking better,they find evil and submit to it .Worries for the future "


Why would this idea be against real life laws? NPC alt posting rights are not codified into any law and freedom of speech does not extend to private property such as CCP's in-game medium. Again freedom of speech is not the same thing as freedom from consequences of that speech.

Example: You are free to say whatever horrible bigoted thing you want but, you are not free from the public shunning you over it. The first part of that example is the freedom of speech and the second part of that is the consequence of that speech.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2014-05-24 22:04:19 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you trolling? No one can be that ********...


You asked a question and I answered it, its true too that's how it would be handled.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#337 - 2014-05-24 22:11:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you trolling? No one can be that ********...


You asked a question and I answered it, its true too that's how it would be handled.

My god I can't believe that you made me reply. You must be trolling but whatever.
Are you aware that corporation of forum alts will not play the game? They might not even log in the game. How the **** do you plan to awox. What will you do once you awox? Blow up nothing? Steal nothing? Pod no one? No one has any assets nor ships nor ISK. They will not undock from stations, what do you not get about that? You can't punish that....
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2014-05-24 22:19:13 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you trolling? No one can be that ********...


You asked a question and I answered it, its true too that's how it would be handled.

My god I can't believe that you made me reply. You must be trolling but whatever.
Are you aware that corporation of forum alts will not play the game? They might not even log in the game. How the **** do you plan to awox. What will you do once you awox? Blow up nothing? Steal nothing? Pod no one? No one has any assets nor ships nor ISK. They will not undock from stations, what do you not get about that? You can't punish that....


They don't have to play the game for that to work all it takes is talking to other human beings so yes social engineering still works as a solution to it.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
#339 - 2014-05-24 22:23:59 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Walter Hart White wrote:

Are you trolling? No one can be that ********...


You asked a question and I answered it, its true too that's how it would be handled.

My god I can't believe that you made me reply. You must be trolling but whatever.
Are you aware that corporation of forum alts will not play the game? They might not even log in the game. How the **** do you plan to awox. What will you do once you awox? Blow up nothing? Steal nothing? Pod no one? No one has any assets nor ships nor ISK. They will not undock from stations, what do you not get about that? You can't punish that....


They don't have to play the game for that to work all it takes is talking to other human beings so yes social engineering still works as a solution to it.

CEO will not log in the game except for approving new people in. No one has any assets. I am not sure what would you do. Even if you disband the corporation, new one will open right away. By same CEO with same no assets.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2014-05-24 22:28:04 UTC
Walter Hart White wrote:

CEO will not log in the game except for approving new people in. No one has any assets. I am not sure what would you do. Even if you disband the corporation, new one will open right away. By same CEO with same no assets.


Disband and steal the corporation its not hard and its hilarious when it happens. Also you're discounting the amount of ego people with gimmick npc posting alts have and how much it will interfere with any gathering.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133