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Heria Blackwater

ORE Freedom Fighters

Likes received: 3

#1 - 2014-05-24 14:52:04 UTC | Edited by: Heria Blackwater

I was reading this on the latest ceo update from goons on mittani.com http://themittani.com/news/gsf-ceo-update-cold-war

Quote:

"TMC Status: Recruiting

My silly hobby media project continues to explode. We've got E3 accreditation for a second year in a row; we've just reformed our HR and editorial process. This means that we want you to write for us (and get mad spacebux, if you write about Eve-related topics) and now you'll even get an emailed nastygram telling you how much your writing sample sucked instead of just having your application ignored if you can't use your words. Previously, applications would take a week+ to process, now we have them turned around inside of 48 hours.

If someone happens to know their way around online advertising from a publisher's perspective, we need your know-how; we've passed some kind of Alexa traffic threshold and are now getting regular inquiries from Real Companies (tm) about serious advertising.

Anyway: we need writers, streamers, and video people. We also have an actual dev project manager, so if you can make Drupal magic happen, hit us up. Details on how to apply are here."

*removed an accusation on a named character* i stand for it but id like to not get the thread closed down cause of herassment.

So if i say that i generate an income of ISK. And i use that isk to pay an eve player to make an out of game product that i sell to make real mony. Is this considerd to be RMT'ing?

Prince Kobol

Likes received: 2,558

#2 - 2014-05-24 15:00:04 UTC | Edited by: Prince Kobol

(In before Dinsdale)

Nope this is fine because its goons.

For anybody else you would be hanged (stoped just before death), drawn and quartered, each offending limb taken to the four corners of Iceland and your head mounted on a spike outside the CCP Offices as a warning to all others.

Also forgot to mention that you would also be emasculated and disembowelled.

Furious Enterprises 8,745
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises Likes received: 8,745	#3 - 2014-05-24 15:04:35 UTC 4 Heria Blackwater wrote: So if i say that i generate an income of ISK. And i use that isk to pay an eve player to make an out of game product that i sell to make real mony. Is this considerd to be RMT'ing? Yes. ☼ There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#4 - 2014-05-24 15:05:06 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Heria Blackwater wrote:

So using in-game isk to create real life wealth isnt that considerd an RMT business? Is this just on an personal lvl or is this a bigger RMT ring that most of the top cfc learship is apart of?

Are you quite sure that any of that is actually happening?

Anyway, read up on §10 and 11 of the ToS and then refer to this GM clarification:

GM Horse wrote:

The only out-of-game services that may be sold for ISK are directly EVE related web services, such as killboard hosting, ventrilo/teamspeak servers, corporation website hosting, and such. No, you may not get your mate to wash your car for ISK, even if he will wear a EVE t-shirt in the process. Big smile

What you're describing certainly sounds an awful lot like an EVE-related web service.

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#5 - 2014-05-24 15:09:00 UTC

What If.... someone gives me a billion ISK when I'm spacebroke and as a result I don't need to grind rats or whatever and as a result I can work a weekend and get paid overtime so basically because they gave me ISK I have more money IS THIS RMT?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Rowells

Pator Tech School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 3,190

#6 - 2014-05-24 15:09:46 UTC

'Real' money trading. Giving someone in-game money is not real. selling ingame items (which under all technicalities belong to CCP) for real world money is against the rules. That's why things like somer blink are ok. Nobody is buying anything ingame with real money. If you are paying fake money for real services it's ok. And if you make money off of out of game services it's ok. CCP can't expect all EVE related websites to be non-profit.


Heria Blackwater ORE Freedom Fighters Likes received: 3	#7 - 2014-05-24 15:11:34 UTC 1 Malcanis wrote: What If.... someone gives me a billion ISK when I'm spacebroke and as a result I don't need to grind rats or whatever and as a result I can work a weekend and get paid overtime so basically because they gave me ISK I have more money IS THIS RMT? no. but if you in exchange provide said persone with an RL product to make RL mony it would...

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#8 - 2014-05-24 15:13:27 UTC

Paying people with isk to provide a service is within the rules, providing content etc for an external website is classified as a service IIRC.

The fact that TMC as a website makes real world money from advertising is irrelevant, it helps to pay for the hosting, admin, development etc as well as the bandwidth, which is probably considerable.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#9 - 2014-05-24 15:18:47 UTC

Heria Blackwater wrote:

Malcanis wrote:

no. but if you in exchange provide said persone with an RL product to make RL mony it would...

What if he gives me a billion ISK because I kept my mouth shut about what he did with a bridesmaid at a mutual friend's wedding?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Heria Blackwater

ORE Freedom Fighters

Likes received: 3

#10 - 2014-05-24 15:20:30 UTC

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

An one private persons personal wealth...

I think its wrong. Its no diffrence from paying people ingame to give you Gold in RL

i

Rowells

Pator Tech School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 3,190

#11 - 2014-05-24 15:25:21 UTC

Heria Blackwater wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

An one private persons personal wealth...

I think its wrong. Its no diffrence from paying people ingame to give you Gold in RL

i

then go away

Doomheim 84
Mrs Epeen Doomheim Likes received: 84	#12 - 2014-05-24 15:29:11 UTC 1 The rules only apply to those of us who can't afford them... The OP is correct but I don't expect any changes.

Emma Muutaras

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 72

#13 - 2014-05-24 15:33:05 UTC

Its kinda reverse RMT the TMC writers report on game topics and get a lot of hits per month on there website as a result of this different companies pay for advertisement which generates a income which allows The TMC to reward there writes with a gift (plex/isk/items)

RMT = selling in game currency for real world currency

which is different to selling advertisement slots for real world currency which is then used to buy plex

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#14 - 2014-05-24 15:33:05 UTC

Heria Blackwater wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

An one private persons personal wealth...

I think its wrong. Its no diffrence from paying people ingame to give you Gold in RL

i

Fortunately for every EVE related website out there CCP disagrees with you.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Jonah Gravenstein

Machiavellian Space Bastards

Likes received: 28,489

#15 - 2014-05-24 15:44:32 UTC | Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein

Heria Blackwater wrote:

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

An one private persons personal wealth...
I think its wrong. Its no diffrence from paying people ingame to give you Gold in RL

I would hazard a guess that Mittens has put significant investment into TMC, both in time and from his own personal wealth. I would also say that he still puts considerable time into the running of the site, as do the staff writers and admin.

It's a general gaming website in that it covers titles from a variety of vendors. It is more Eve slanted than most, but most wouldn't publish some of the more technical stuff that gets covered or the randomly interesting stuff. The only difference being that he pays some of his writers with a virtual currency. If he can cover his investment and possibly take a wage from it after all is said and done, then more power to him.

Your feelings of right or wrong are irrelevant, CCP have the only and final say on the matter with regards to the EULA and their own anti-RMT operations.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Doc Fury

Furious Enterprises

Likes received: 8,745

#16 - 2014-05-24 15:46:52 UTC | Edited by: Doc Fury

Tippia wrote:

Anyway, read up on §10 and 11 of the ToS and then refer to this GM clarification:

GM Horse wrote:

What you're describing certainly sounds an awful lot like an EVE-related web service.

I'd call this a fringe case as the site in question is not exclusive to EVE, and the relevant TOS sections and GM clarification do not address "news" sites or OOG publishing.

TOS §11 wrote:

The advertisement or sale of out of game goods and services not directly related to EVE online is prohibited.
The only out of game goods and services which can be advertised or sold are the following: EVE forum signature creation, website and third party voice communication server hosting or EVE Time Codes.

The local tax man is who ultimately decides what qualifies as RMT, and not CCP. CCP determines what types of RMT they will allow. In the US for instance you cannot place a 0 value on your own labor, or for services or goods provided to you, except under very specific circumstances or the use of ~~dodgy~~ creative accounting.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.


Mrs Epeen Doomheim Likes received: 84	#17 - 2014-05-24 16:14:37 UTC 1 Why are people so afraid to pick a side? Even when the answer is black and white.

3,578
Josef Djugashvilis Likes received: 3,578	#18 - 2014-05-24 16:20:19 UTC 1 What if someone gives me a few billion isk, you know, because I'm worth it? This is not a signature.

7,950
Dave Stark Likes received: 7,950	#19 - 2014-05-24 16:21:14 UTC 3 it's obviously not RMTing, why is this even a thread? no real money has been traded.