Player Features and Ideas Discussion

NEED: Would be damaging to the in game economy to be without.
REQUIRED: To be without it would damage the in game economy.

The direct use of BPOs in the T2 market is not NEEDed or REQUIRED.

"they don't hurt anyone" " if you think u know that better, plz go ahead and provide us some evidences"
1. BPOs avoid the need for any of the invention materials. Players make ISK gathering invention material and are hurt by the fact BPOs avoid the invention process.
2. Time an inventor takes to gather materials and fees paid to start invention processes. These are investment that BPOs avoid. Inventors are hurt by this.
3. BPCs that come from invention have lower material levels and take more materials to build. BPOs have very good material levels because they have been researched. Less materials mean T2 component builders have less demand on their components, they too are hurt by BPOs.
4. Devs difficulty and unwillingness in improving invention because of the existence of player owned BPOs.

So that shows 3 segments of the invention market that are directly affected by BPOs.


Considering how much BPOs cost, they only get purchased by people with ISK to burn not expecting a return on their purchase for YEARS. These are not necessarily industrial end goals. I wouldn't keep BPOs in players hands just to give a hand full of people some end game content that is not really any different then T1 production but with different input material.

The amount of people burnt by the loss or locking of BPOs would be overshadowed by the ratio of people that would benefit from their locking or removal. A few thousand own BPOs with some on inactive and banned accounts. Every player involved in moon mining, t2 component production, gathering and marketing invention materials, and the Inventors themselves would benefit. Far outnumber the few that actually own BPOs.

http://k162space.com/2012/03/08/t2-bpo-returns/ plz read that
and that
http://loadoutoptional.com/2013/07/19/t2-bpos-the-misconceptions-eve-online/

yep, thanks for pointing out what everybody knows. BUT you seem to ignore that the number of BPO's are limited in the game. for example there aren't even 20 of each ship BPO's in the game and even less are actually active (inactive, banned, destryoed, lazy ppl). Even if all existent BPO's were building 24/7, BPO's simply can't provide anything but a very low percentage of the overall demand. This doesnt cut the profit of a T2 BPO as such, but makes the point of T2 BPO's undercutting invention absurd. And since the number of produced items keeps going up, the influence of BPO's will go down by natural law. Not to mention that anything that isnt getting seeded anymore, will be out of the game sooner or later regardless.



goal in a computer game = something worth playing for
you could also say you could buy 2000 Ospreys for one etana, nobody wants an etana

Oh no. Another one of these threads.

I'm not defending T2 BPO's and I won't be surprised if they do or don't get removed BUT the announced change to have invented T2 BPCs come out of the cooker at a minimum of ME0/PE0, or the post-Crius equivalent, will go a long way to levelling out the playing field.

That sentence was too long. Sorry.

No, they actually stated more or less the opposite: The quoted post can be found here.


That said, I removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules:
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


Edit: fixed typo (thnx MDD)

The intention was multifold:

• Keep T2 BPOs in game. If a holder wants to produce from it, he may, but the print will eventually decay. If the holder doesn't produce from it, then they've still got their special snowflake (i.e. CCP didn't remove it).
• Make BPC durability ("runs") adjustable *after* invention, by having "things" which affect the damage rate at the time of production.

MDD

So, I will choose to support this initiative IF you can link a spreadsheet listing EVERY T2 item produced over a year, how many were produced via a T2 BPO (copying or direct production), how many were produced by invention, and why the MINISCULE amount created through T2BPO somehow controls the entire market creating a stranglehold giving whoever has the BPO apparently enough ISK to buy out PL

(hint, most T2 BPO owner's claim to wealth is simply having the BPO that makes up 90% of their wealth they wont get back until they sell it, or simply own a T2 BPO because there other incomes are so ridiculous they can afford to sepnd it on something frivolous and novel like a T2 BPO)

Simply being "unneccesary" is not reason enough to remove something, else we could just remove corps, alliances, and the OP from the game, after all if those things were removed no one would notice anyways.

How many fallacies can you stick into the same post?

EvE is not dying.

Plex are not spiraling upwards at some insane level.

The "T2 BPO" roadblock doesn't exit for 95% of the modules in the game, and the few it does exist for are slow moving anyway. Any competent business producer would steer away from them.

Let me guess... there is some "skill point" roadblock that prevents a 1 week old player from engaging in PvP too... What utter bullshit!

CCP's business plan is pretty solid in my eyes. The game is balanced so a young player can swing the tides of combat just like an older player. Where it takes a week or two to be competent, but months to master most professions, while a lack of master doesn't leave you noncompetitive. A place where RL wealth can be brought into the game in a manner that benefits everyone. Is the game perfect, hell NO. There are lots of areas in need of improvement. As for T2 BPO's though, they are the common scapegoat for all green-eyed uneducated industrialist out there. Hell, when I first learned of them, before I really understood the invention mechanics, and the techniques players employ to optimize their production, I too called them out as unfair and QQ'd over not being able to compete. The truth is, invention competes just fine in most of t2 production. There is plenty of room to make isk, and there are tricks you can use to optimize your profitability.

I'll be very saddened (as a non-T2 BPO Owner) if CCP removes them from the game or destroys their functionality. To all those that feel cheated by them, you do yourself a disservice by scapegoating them as the cause of your problems rather than truly investigating the options before you.

Why would you want to get rid of T2 BPOs from the game? So, people who have played the game a long time and acquired a T2 BPO should no longer be allowed to have it, use it, and benefit from it?

I don't see how anything is distorted unless you're referring to the invention process and output that is generated as a result of a successfully completed invention job. Originally, the negative values were put in place so that T2 BPOs were not suddenly useless. Although it would be nice to achieve a 0 level from an invention copy, and T2 BPOs would still be useful and important as the owners can research them to higher levels. A fact that you cannot do the same to invention BPCs.

What wrong with people defending their assets? Just sounds like your complaining because you want a T2 BPO but cannot get one. Maybe your post should be to petition CCP to start to reseed T2 BPOs instead?

I've been seeing a trend to nullify the role people who do S&I activities in this game. If the majority of people feel that way then just remove S&I completely from the game instead of beating around the bush and complaining about this aspect of gameplay.

T2 BPO Roadblock?! LOL

I was NOT one of the fortunate ones to get handed a T2 Bpo when you still could get them via inventions. I never saw this as a "roadblock" or even unfair. I simply set myself a few goals and try and achieve them. After all, that is why I am playing Eve. It is way easier to make Isk these days then when I started this game.

I for one, are going to be very pissed when they make these changes to inventions. CCP is going to devalue T2 BPO so much, meaning I and a lot of other people going to loose huge amounts of asset value, which most of us work for and achieved over the years.

I don't care what anyone else says, its unfair to T2 bpo owners. It was part of the game, I build my empire around owning and reselling T2 Bpos. If CCP devalue T2 BPOs in any way, causing me to loose huge amounts of Isk in the process, I will cancel all my accounts. It is just disrespectful to their clients. What ever the problems are with T2 BPOs, its not our fault and we don't deserve to be penalized in the process trying to fix the problems everyone are crying about.

isk cost of something isn't a valuable argument to state if this thing is a good or a bad thing in the game.