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Is the Naga dead to you, or are you still excited for it?

Author
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#221 - 2011-12-02 13:39:08 UTC
Riddle me this please...


Can it shoot a large POS with blasters?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Liam Mirren
#222 - 2011-12-02 14:50:18 UTC
Tbh, looking forward to flying it in its rail config, it's really really REALLY good that way. Massive dps with massive range.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#223 - 2011-12-02 15:29:03 UTC
Dead to me.

I trained Torps just for SB flying (don't have BS skills yet) which I don't get to use enough as is. The idea of having another sub-BS ship that fired torps made my day...then they pulled it. So I still have one ship that uses the torps I spent training for.

However, given the Drake's already formidable capabilities, I don't know how they could have made a 'better' BC than that. The Drake is nearly a tier 3 BC as it is- making a better BC than Drake would just be a BS.

As much as I wanted the Naga to sport torps, I do understand how that would have either needed to be a total glass cannon to offset the firepower, or some other nerf to keep it from being little more than a BS-lite.

Purely for selfish reasons- the Naga died the moment they pulled the torps from them.
IainG10
Perkone
Caldari State
#224 - 2011-12-02 15:33:56 UTC
xSynnx wrote:
So much QQ about Naga...

If you ONLY have missiles trained as a caldari pilot... you havent been playing Eve long enough. When you reach the point of "Ok im within 2% of my max missile potential, what should i train next?" the obvious course of action (to me) would be to train the weapon system for the other half of my race's (Caldari) ships.

Granted, i admit you have to train a whole new set of primary/secondary/tertiary skills, but dont you at least want to fly your races ships? Having played for so long i dont claim any races ships as my own anymore, only to say that i dont like caldari. That being said i have trained all turret based weapons (T2) of all sizes and even Missiles, T2 up to Heavy and HAM's. As i said before i dont particularly care for Caldari boats.

As a Caldari player if your still QQ'ing about turrets... your still young.

-XS


All of my QQing about the loss of torps aside, the problem is how the Caldari have their hybrid bonuses. While the Gallente get a bonus to damage, the Caldari get a bonus to range, and with the ability to warp to probes range, sniping doesn't work in PvP. I would love nothing more than to fly the race I have skills for, but as part of a PvP coalition I have to crosstrain Amarr for fleet ops. I have all guided missile up to T2, and rails are T2 up to Mediums, and I'm training large T2 rails for the Naga, but I doubt I'll ever get to use it.
IainG10
Perkone
Caldari State
#225 - 2011-12-02 15:35:43 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Dead to me.

I trained Torps just for SB flying (don't have BS skills yet) which I don't get to use enough as is. The idea of having another sub-BS ship that fired torps made my day...then they pulled it. So I still have one ship that uses the torps I spent training for.

However, given the Drake's already formidable capabilities, I don't know how they could have made a 'better' BC than that. The Drake is nearly a tier 3 BC as it is- making a better BC than Drake would just be a BS.

As much as I wanted the Naga to sport torps, I do understand how that would have either needed to be a total glass cannon to offset the firepower, or some other nerf to keep it from being little more than a BS-lite.

Purely for selfish reasons- the Naga died the moment they pulled the torps from them.


The Naga way out-dpsed the Drake agaist BS when the had torps, but it lacked the tank. And all it is now is a Pocket Rokh.
Maroxus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#226 - 2011-12-02 19:38:39 UTC
IainG10 wrote:


The Naga way out-dpsed the Drake agaist BS when the had torps, but it lacked the tank. And all it is now is a Pocket Rokh.


It was a Pocket Raven with torps. Now its a faster Rokh with more dps, but no tank. Instead of being compared to other sniping BS and deemed useless with the lack of alpha, dps, and excessive range; the Naga can move around hitting at medium range with good dps using lower range ammo.
xSynnx
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2011-12-02 19:51:33 UTC
IainG10 wrote:
xSynnx wrote:
So much QQ about Naga...

If you ONLY have missiles trained as a caldari pilot... you havent been playing Eve long enough. When you reach the point of "Ok im within 2% of my max missile potential, what should i train next?" the obvious course of action (to me) would be to train the weapon system for the other half of my race's (Caldari) ships.

Granted, i admit you have to train a whole new set of primary/secondary/tertiary skills, but dont you at least want to fly your races ships? Having played for so long i dont claim any races ships as my own anymore, only to say that i dont like caldari. That being said i have trained all turret based weapons (T2) of all sizes and even Missiles, T2 up to Heavy and HAM's. As i said before i dont particularly care for Caldari boats.

As a Caldari player if your still QQ'ing about turrets... your still young.

-XS


All of my QQing about the loss of torps aside, the problem is how the Caldari have their hybrid bonuses. While the Gallente get a bonus to damage, the Caldari get a bonus to range, and with the ability to warp to probes range, sniping doesn't work in PvP. I would love nothing more than to fly the race I have skills for, but as part of a PvP coalition I have to crosstrain Amarr for fleet ops. I have all guided missile up to T2, and rails are T2 up to Mediums, and I'm training large T2 rails for the Naga, but I doubt I'll ever get to use it.


On the contrary snipping is all massive fleet pvp is. High alpha is a viable tactic even in small gangs, this is shown by mobile sniper HAC gangs. Yes there are down sides, you arent getting the damage bonus a Gallente ship is, or the massive alpha a Minnie ship is, but you'll be doing your damage at much further ranges, and more accurately resulting in better hits since you'll be hitting closer to or below your optimal while others are deep in falloff. This in itself will keep your dps on par with the others because while you'll be hitting perfectly they will be losing dps due to misses and glancing shots.

Do not despair good sir, you'll put your hybrid skills to good use.
Masatoshi Hamada
Doomheim
#228 - 2011-12-02 23:46:01 UTC
Caldari have already many missiles boats. What is that good they have Naga, so the hybrids people have a ship to fly. Imagine Gallente only with drones! Shocked
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2011-12-03 00:11:56 UTC
tried the naga out the other night with a fleet doing lvl 4's. I couldn't hit diddly or sqaut.

I have someone decent hybrid skills. tried both t2 ammos. tried blasters as well for poop and giggles.

Not one hit. not even a glancing blow. nothing.

Love the look of the ship, and had pretty damn good shield out of it.... but the 0dps kinda kills it for me.

Please kindly inform me of what to actually do with this ship as far as setup goes. Cause I am lost.


On a side note: Wish this was a missile boat :(
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#230 - 2011-12-03 11:32:45 UTC
Dielax wrote:
tried the naga out the other night with a fleet doing lvl 4's. I couldn't hit diddly or sqaut.

I have someone decent hybrid skills. tried both t2 ammos. tried blasters as well for poop and giggles.

Not one hit. not even a glancing blow. nothing.

Love the look of the ship, and had pretty damn good shield out of it.... but the 0dps kinda kills it for me.

Please kindly inform me of what to actually do with this ship as far as setup goes. Cause I am lost.


On a side note: Wish this was a missile boat :(


You're doing it wrong. L2P.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2011-12-03 15:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Tanaka Hobbitus wrote:
Quick query -

Has anyone tried one in PvP yet?
or is this just commentary based on EFT and the fact that it got changed from its original design.

If CCP changed it, I would assume it was because they wanted to give some players something different.

If it is a mini Rokh then perhaps its designed to be an entry level version so that players can get used to the role of a sniper whilst buying a ship which is more than half the price of a Rokh (based on Jita pricing)?




Works great for me. We blew up 4 BCs really freaking fast, and they had a curse just the other day.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#232 - 2011-12-03 20:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Baden Luskan
Maroxus wrote:
IainG10 wrote:


The Naga way out-dpsed the Drake agaist BS when the had torps, but it lacked the tank. And all it is now is a Pocket Rokh.


It was a Pocket Raven with torps. Now its a faster Rokh with more dps, but no tank. Instead of being compared to other sniping BS and deemed useless with the lack of alpha, dps, and excessive range; the Naga can move around hitting at medium range with good dps using lower range ammo.


You do that and you will not have a ship very long.

With artilery bing the proven PvP standard right now, you have to make sure that any lightly armored ship either gets under their range or far beyond it. If you place a Naga at 75k range, that is right in the sweet spot for artilery. Your Naga will die faster than it took to lock you fighting that close.

The only way any of these sniping ships will last very long is by staying out of range of as many weapon systems as possible and making sure they are aligned and at 3/4 speed at a celestrial, so when they do scan you down and warp to you, you can warp away.

Best stragety is to have a main fleet, say maelstorms or abbadons, engaging the enemy fleet, and having your sniping fleet warp in shortly after, about 130k (or more) away from the enemy fleet and behind their main fleet. Once this happens, they MUST start to spread out (afterburners are best for this) and keep their range so that when they do start getting scanned down and warped to, they are not all sitting ducks. Seeing as most Abbadons and maelstorms engage around 70-80k, having this sniping fleet 50k behind their main fleet would allow the main fleet to still have range on the enemy fleet and engage.

I really can not thing of any other tactic that would allow for these sniping battlecruisers to be used in large fleet fights. The biggest arguement that you can have against the stragety above is; why not just put the pilots who are in sniper ships in maelstorms and/or abbadons so they rae more useful?
Dielax
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2011-12-03 22:33:06 UTC
Dielax wrote:

Please kindly inform me of what to actually do with this ship as far as setup goes. Cause I am lost.


Helicity Boson wrote:
You're doing it wrong. L2P.


Wow. Your powers of deduction are simply astounding. Thank you for your observation and your considerable help.
Mira Stargazer
Epic Warfare
#234 - 2011-12-03 23:21:31 UTC
Dead? No, but maybe ORE ships will be dead soon with more competing mining ships from the Caldari State. The Rokh is an excellent miner, Naga is a cheaper alternative to it. Now we are just waiting for Caldari state to present the ship that will outperform the Hulk. Next expansion, CCP? Cool

I have feelings, I can smile - and murder while!

Maroxus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#235 - 2011-12-03 23:37:04 UTC
Baden Luskan wrote:
Maroxus wrote:

My stuff
Fleet stuff


I was comparing the Naga to the Rokh, not the Naga to sniping BS. I don't see the Naga being used in large fleets, but in gangs. I was pointing out the flaws of the Rokh on how it fails its intended role and I don't see the Rokh being used for anything else other then trying to be a blaster ship. The resistance bonus can make the Rokh a brick, but it fails at that against the Abbadon. Unlike the Rokh the Naga is fast, faster then a Hurricane. It has speed and long/medium range with solid dps at the cost of tank.

That is more useful then the Rokh or a faster Raven with no Tank.
dethleffs
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2011-12-04 03:24:13 UTC
Dielax wrote:
Dielax wrote:

Please kindly inform me of what to actually do with this ship as far as setup goes. Cause I am lost.


Helicity Boson wrote:
You're doing it wrong. L2P.


Wow. Your powers of deduction are simply astounding. Thank you for your observation and your considerable help.


so what is wrong exactly with a ship that goes as fast as a shield cane and has the dps of a shield cane at 60 km?
I dont get you torp people. Try being minmatar if you think crosstraining to hybrids is hard.
Tusen Takk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#237 - 2011-12-04 03:49:33 UTC
i used to hate the idea of guns and loved missiles because they were easy

and then i switched to guns and noticed craploads better damage projection/easier crosstraining to other types of guns, and 7mil in gunnery later, i hate missiles

tldr eff da missles
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#238 - 2011-12-04 09:37:31 UTC
Dielax wrote:
Dielax wrote:

Please kindly inform me of what to actually do with this ship as far as setup goes. Cause I am lost.


Helicity Boson wrote:
You're doing it wrong. L2P.


Wow. Your powers of deduction are simply astounding. Thank you for your observation and your considerable help.


If you can't "hit anything at all" (which I rather doubt to be completely honest) You are doing one of 3 things:

1) your tracking skill are truly abysmal
2) you are attempting to use rails at blaster ranges
3) you are using the incorrect ammo for the range you are at

Use a rail naga at around 60km and try again.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#239 - 2011-12-05 05:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
I just finished Lrg Rail spec IV the week before patch came out and am now in the later stages of large proj 5, lg arty spec right after that, so I'm pleased as punch and will get Naga and Tornado at same time. Caldari pilot BTW, so shields skills go nicely with both.Don't undertsand how you can be a Cal pilot and not have rails trained.Like the man said, then you were a missile boat pilot, not a Caldari pilot.If you can put gunboats in your fleet then mebbe you wouldnt have such a hard time putting a balanced one together.
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#240 - 2011-12-05 07:20:19 UTC
We took a fleet of sniper BC3s out, success was had!

http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=24765

Note that we had 3 of the 4 BC3s in gang (the talos is not so great as a sniper, so it was absent).

The nagas did great, they won't outdamage Oracles or Tornadoes on carrier killmails, but they sit firmly in the middle ground of alpha/dps. To boot, they easily have the best tank (or you can be crazy and fit an ewar module here and there).

All in all the new BCs are pretty fantastic in this role, and will probably soon be nerfed (5 guardians and a triage carrier couldn't stop us from popping abaddons, let alone if we fired on a guardian)