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Ishtar since Crucible
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vCUJOv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-04 05:27:06 UTC
Did anyone use ishtar for 0.0 plexing since the update? I lost one in 7/10 angel cartel plex after 5sec of warping to the site without a chance to warp out. I used to take all the agro in guristas 10/10 plex with out a problem. I had a proper tank for angel yet I was gone like I was in a pod.Next day I got another ishtar and warped into some crappy anno with 3bc and 4bs. Same thing, I was gone before I had a chance to warp out. What is going on?
myFORUMalt alts
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-12-04 06:03:09 UTC
its obvious, you forgot to turn on your hardeners, damage control, and your dual MARs
duh

Yes, I complain about things I don't like.
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#3 - 2011-12-04 06:09:17 UTC
lol, care to specify a little more details op? like the fit or about the npc's? were u being webbed etc? did u turn on the hardeners?? Ishtar looks fine to me, still able to tank full aggro in lvl4's same as before the patch.
vCUJOv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-04 06:11:40 UTC
Please man. Did you read my post. I didn't even had a chance do this. Tell me something useful
vCUJOv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-04 06:11:50 UTC  |  Edited by: vCUJOv
?
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#6 - 2011-12-04 06:14:36 UTC
imo they changed the number of spawns and not the difficulty of individual ones. Are u saying just 3 bc and 4 bs took it out? sure you did not miss any extra spawns etc? since there were no frigs, u must have been speed tanking them easily..
vCUJOv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-12-04 06:19:55 UTC
3x cap recharcher II
1 L cap Batt II
1x adaptive nano II
1x kinetic hardener II
1x explosive hardener II
2x med armour rep II
2x med aux nano puma I

Angel cartel NPC . I warped first , logi right after and before he could get reps on me I was gone. We talking seconds here.
Same thing happened in a nano with just handful of angel bc and bs. I took 2-3 hits after my shield was gone and i had no armour left.
White Matar Ra
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-12-04 06:26:13 UTC
Not having any problems with gurista rats in my ishtar.

vOv
Goose99
#9 - 2011-12-04 06:26:56 UTC
VcujoV wrote:
3x cap recharcher II
1 L cap Batt II
1x adaptive nano II
1x kinetic hardener II
1x explosive hardener II
2x med armour rep II
2x med aux nano puma I

Angel cartel NPC . I warped first , logi right after and before he could get reps on me I was gone. We talking seconds here.
Same thing happened in a nano with just handful of angel bc and bs. I took 2-3 hits after my shield was gone and i had no armour left.



Here I thought it's a passive shield fit you were talking about. You had a gallante kin boosted armor hac and expect it to tank exp dmg in null plex? Did you want easy mode? The changes are in the right direction, but it should go further...
vCUJOv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-12-04 06:32:32 UTC
Ok. My pvp fited brutix did better than ishtar. The armour did go fast but not as fast as ishtar...I wish someone could try ishtar
against angel to confirm
vCUJOv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-04 07:53:22 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
VcujoV wrote:
3x cap recharcher II
1 L cap Batt II
1x adaptive nano II
1x kinetic hardener II
1x explosive hardener II
2x med armour rep II
2x med aux nano puma I

Angel cartel NPC . I warped first , logi right after and before he could get reps on me I was gone. We talking seconds here.
Same thing happened in a nano with just handful of angel bc and bs. I took 2-3 hits after my shield was gone and i had no armour left.



Here I thought it's a passive shield fit you were talking about. You had a gallante kin boosted armor hac and expect it to tank exp dmg in null plex? Did you want easy mode? The changes are in the right direction, but it should go further...




Any suggestions or you just like to feel smarter than you actually are.
GreenSeed
#12 - 2011-12-04 08:13:30 UTC
well, he has a point, HACs are not lazy mode. HACs are like faction specific hardeners, in the sence that you dont change the hardener, you change the ship.

if you cant fly the proper HAC given the rats you fight, then you will need to fill the resist hole with somethig, and i see one hardener that you say was off, and one omni plating that adds crap. you had 20% resists top, and you were at 0 speed. you get 2 - 3 crushing hits and youre down. whats surprising about that?

a HAC being flown by a lazy capsuleer who doesnt want to train to fly the proper HAC, and wants to tank the wrong faction, needs to use one of those gimmick fits, like "shield ishtar" to stay alive. Blink
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#13 - 2011-12-04 10:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Donna Divine
Did DED sites get an update just like the anoms then?

I ran guristas 7/10 and 8/10 yesterday and noticed no change myself. Used proteus (testing a high dps blaster setup, but will be going back to ishtar/tengu), not ishtar. But judging from how the proteus tank held up the active armor ishtar i use should be able to tank these DED's still.

Did some NPC damage types get changed maybe?

Or was the angel 7/10 woefully understaffed before crucible? Hoe many NPC's in first room? ~10 of each size should be about right for a 7/10.

And what's with the kin hardener? You are doing angel sites in a HAC with a kin resist of about 90 before that extra hardener.wtf?

did you every do angel DED's before in an ishtar i wonder?
Sen Ria
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#14 - 2011-12-04 21:16:50 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
well, a HAC being flown by a lazy capsuleer who doesnt want to train to fly the proper HAC, and wants to tank the wrong faction, needs to use one of those gimmick fits, like "shield ishtar" to stay alive. Blink



Hey I like the passive shield fit :( is it really that much worse?

I kind of had to do that fit because i was doing the level 5 solo "gimmick" , which payed for my account for half a year.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#15 - 2011-12-04 22:20:08 UTC
You went from facing the NPC's you have the best natural resist profile to those against which you have the worst natural resist profile. If you have logi coming in after you, fit for resists and buffer, not reps - an Ishtar without plates doesn't have a whole lot of EHP versus explosive, especially with only one hardner- it's perfectly possible that you were just dropped that quickly.
Yoshite McLulzypants
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-05 02:44:55 UTC
no the higher end angel bs do a lot of em and some thermal damage, seraphs cherubs and niph. kinetic hardener has to go have you even seen the natural resist on an ishtar? put an EM or perhaps another EANM would be better to give a bit more explosive too.
Dr Silkworth
#17 - 2011-12-05 03:55:04 UTC
I really would need to see more info on an EM damaging angel. Not aware of that one though my damage profile lists about 10 percent for em and thermal.

Ishtar is not great for angels at all. the tank for gurristas, both buffer and dps is three times more suited to gurristas even with an explosive hardener fit.

Your fit only has a 13000 hp buffer against angels with the stuff running. With it off its only 9000, TOTAL. That same fit has about 33000 against gurristas. You need buffer but really another ship. I've made a domi work against angels but never even tried an ishtar once I saw its explosive hole. You need a Caldari or Minmatar ship.
Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
New Miner's Union
#18 - 2011-12-05 08:17:55 UTC
Is there an incursion in that system?
Astald Ohtar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-12-05 13:55:00 UTC
10% explo armor base resist VS 50% shield anyone?

shield tank your ishtar .

Traska Gannel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-12-05 15:03:41 UTC
Angels are more challenging than most since the damage profile changes depending on the Angel fleet compositions ... a full mixed fleet will do all damage types.

Seraphims do mostly EM
Cherubims do mostly thermal
Malakims and others do alot of Explosive and some kinetic
All the missiles are explosive.

Here are some of the damage profiles from http://eve.grismar.net/rats/

Seraphim ... EM 20 - Exp 16 - Kinetic 8
Cherubim ... Kinetic 8 - Thermal 32
Throne, Malakim, Warlord ... Exp 32 - Kinetic 8
General ... Exp 8 - KInetic 28
Nephilim ... Exp 8 - Kinetic 32

There are similar distributions across all the Angel ship types (BC/Cruiser...).

So ... looking at this fit ... one explosive hardener that the original poster said was off won't cut it for the amount of explosive damage that an angel fleet puts out (now ... why it was off I have no idea since you can warp around with hardeners and reppers turned on if you like). The kinetic hardener is useless.

High end Angel anomalies and plexes will have more Seraphim/Cherubin/Nephilim so you will need to tank appropriately for those or have a good omni-tank.

Also, range is a factor since Seraphim/Cherubim/Nephilim all hit hard at long range (50km) while the explosive ones usually have to close range to do a lot of damage.

In the end, I think these losses come down to not doing research on what to expect from Angel rats rather than any issue with the patch.
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